Commons:Deletion requests/File:Flag of Hezbollah.svg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Flag_of_Hezbollah.svg

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The previous discussion on this was flawed. The admin who closed it off simply closed by stating {{PD-ineligible}} without any rationale. Arguments presented in the discussion ranged from "we need it", "all flags should be marked PD" (regardless of laws), to "there is no original authorship". Looking at the flag there is obviously original authorship, whihc is a combination of Arabic text intertwined with what is clear "artwork". Unless someone is able to arrange with Hezbollah for the release of this flag under a suitable licence, it should be deleted from commons. Also, if anyone is going to claim that it is PD-ineligible, in that it has no original authorship, they will need to present evidence of this in both the US and the country of origin, rather than simply stating it is ineligible with no reasoning behind it. Sandstein's comments in the original discussion were spot on the mark. russavia (talk) 17:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: File:CoA of Hezbollah.png is a derivative of this file, so if consensus is that the flag file should be deleted, then the derivative file would also need to go. But of course I would ask that a little time be given in order for local projects to hold onto these files (with reduced size) in order for them to be used inline with local project NFCC criteria. --russavia (talk) 22:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would have to say, this certainly does not look ineligible under grounds of text or simple shapes. While I'm no expert on arabic, I'm pretty certain an AK47 is not one of the letters of their alephbet. -mattbuck (Talk) 22:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(The fact that you kind of got on people's nerves a little during the last deletion discussion might possibly have had an influence on why the image was not deleted then.) I still wonder what is the difference between the Hezbollah flag and a number of national flags which are copyright-protected in their home countries... AnonMoos (talk) 02:42, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Which flags would that be? Sandstein (talk) 05:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Which flags they would be are irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion is centred only on this file (and its derivative file), so it would be great if editors didn't get sidetracked on issues which are not relevant to the discussion of this file. However, having said that, and albeit briefly, Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Flag of ASEAN.svg and Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Flag of NATO.svg are relevant. Also AnonMoos, the mere fact that Sandstein nominated the file for deletion, and with more than valid reasoning, is not reason to tell him that he got on people's nerves and that he might have been responsible for it being kept. For whatever reason it was kept, I doubt very much Sandstein's valid reasoning was responsible. --russavia (talk) 10:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hezbolla has a press office (somewhere) if we may ask there under wich conditions it's allowed to use their flag.--Sanandros (talk) 22:52, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If an editor was to contact Hezbollah and get explicit permission to have their logo/flag licenced under a free licence, I would withdraw the nomination if it was successful. Their permission would need to state which licence, and also a statement that they understand it can be used commercially and modified at will (or at the very least have this explained to them in the request). --russavia (talk) 07:58, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is somebody of the Portal:Mid East here? Maybe the could help us to get a contact to Hezbolla.--Sanandros (talk) 09:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The best place to find someone would likely be on either enwp or arwp in portals or wikiprojects. --russavia (talk) 10:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Whilethe previous discussion may have been flawed, we still must consider that a) the flag is majority-text, and b) the shape of the AK47 and other designs are all simple enough that they should fall under {{PD-ineligible}}. There has been general consensus to keep flags of countries, regardless of copyright status in those countries, and I see no reason why the flag of a political party should be much different. Furthermore, considering that we don't know who designed the flag, it's equally impossible to determine who, if anyone, is the copyright holder. While my understanding of copyright is undoubtedly flawed, I believe that this should in some way qualify it as being PD as an anonymous work. Mnmazur (talk)

Not afaik, more likely we would be required to wait until 50yrs or so after publication. -mattbuck (Talk) 18:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Hezbollah is an illegal terrorist organization. It cannot hold copyright. Lexicon (talk) 14:35, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even if "Hezbollah is an illegal terrorist organization" under any law relevant to Wikipedia Commons, I'm not aware how that would have any bearing on the organization's or its members' capacity to hold copyright under U.S. copyright law. Even criminals can own property, intellectual or otherwise. Sandstein (talk) 21:27, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Unless Hezbollah is a legally-recognized person under the law (i.e. a corporation or such other creature of statute with similar rights), then it cannot hold copyright. Lexicon (talk) 00:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
They were, afaik, voted in as the legitimate Palestinian government. I think that qualifies. -mattbuck (Talk) 01:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's Hamas, not Hezbollah. Lexicon (talk) 02:36, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But they where voted in the Lebanise parliament--Sanandros (talk) 05:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oops. Sorry, my bad. -mattbuck (Talk) 10:42, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If copyright in this flag is not held by Hezbollah, the organization, then it is held by whichever person(s) designed the flag. At any rate, somebody holds the copyright, and whether or not they are terrorists does not matter for purposes of copyright law. Sandstein (talk) 15:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if that's actually the case, given all the new US anti-terrorism legislation (which I assume somewhere addresses property of terrorist organizations). I unfortunately, however, don't have the time to properly research the matter. Lexicon (talk) 19:08, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Clearly passes the threshold of originality. Someone owns the copyright. He may not be a very nice person. In all probability he was assassinated by Mossad years ago. But it's not Public Domain, and it's not licensed in a way that we can use it. Buddy431 (talk) 04:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Regardless of political orientation, this was most likely designed by an artist living and working in a country with no copyright laws. Any such artist has no reason to consider any of his works to be protected by other laws, whilst producing in them a country that does not recognise the need to protect artistic endeavour legally, because they view the fruits of these labours as expressions of God to be shared with the masses. --thejake

Both File:Flag_of_Hezbollah.svg and File:CoA of Hezbollah.png are deleted. The image on the flag exceeds the threshhold of originality (i.e. the drawing of a hand holding assault rifle is by no means common property and does contain original authorship). Lebanon has copyright laws (see Template:PD-Lebanon) and nobody provided any arguments, why Hezbollah flag or logo are exempt from copyright. Since both files are in use on multiple pages in local wikis I will give a day or two to reupload the files in local wikis. Then I'll delete them. Blacklake (talk) 12:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Flag of Hezbollah.svg

[edit]

This logo has apparently a complicated history of being kept and being deleted in various deletion discussions, but I see that after being kept once in early 2007, it was deleted three times in late 2007, 2010 and 2011. So it should probably be deleted again? FWIW, Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Lebanon does not mention any exceptions for logos. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 14:50, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Someone had uploaded a Hezbollah flag over a simplified version that was own work of the uploader. Please be notified that I reverted the change per Commons:Overwriting existing files. Regards HeminKurdistan (talk) 17:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per discussion above. --Materialscientist (talk) 08:22, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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