Commons:Deletion requests/Archive/2006/01

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Archive
Archive
Archive January 2006

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

The property rights attached to that image belong to the Nokia corporation who designed this industrial product. Fair use images are not allowed on Commons. --Teofilo 15:59, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User Grm_wnr alone cannot license this work, because he is not the sole author of it. He is only one co-author. Unless both authors (him and the Nokia corporation) reach an agreement to license the work, the work has no license, and therefore may not be published. --Teofilo 15:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is tricky... while it is true that product design can be copyrighted, and photos of copyrighted objects would have to be licensed by the original designer as well as the photographer, but we have to draw a line somewhere. For example, we do allow images of cars, clothing, etc, while the designe of those objects often is copyrighted. On the othe hand, we do not allow pictures of book covers, cartoon figures, and the like. In another discussion on this page, someone suggested to allow pictures of objects if their look/design is not their primary purpose... sounds good in a way, but it's still hard to decide, especially for things like cell phones.

That being said: it seems the N-Gage is a borderline case here. I really don't know what to do about it. Copyright law is a mess :( -- Duesentrieb(?!) 16:59, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

we do allow images of cars : on which basis do Wikipedians do so? Don't you think the car manufacturer may object the use of his cars in commercial uses such as posters or postcards? Can I make an advertisment for car wash equipment (soap or sponge) with a photograph showing someone washing a car without the consent of the car manufacturer? --Teofilo 18:40, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
definitely maybe. This is one of the many aspects of yopright that are very blurry. If someone know more about this, it would be excelent to put information about this on Commons:Licensing. -- Duesentrieb(?!) 23:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A hint is given on that page on a professional car photographer's internet site : Famous cars are instantly recognisable and their name, shape and logos are copyrighted by the manufacturer. Whilst permission is not normally required for editorial use in a positive way, permission from the manufacturer will be needed for advertising or merchandising use. It is your responsibility to ensure you have the required permission. Be sure to read out terms and conditions before using images. --Teofilo 12:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I dont think that commercial and industrial products are protected by copyright law in most countries. eg in the UK only artistic works are included, everything else is only covered by trademark law. Even if some countries allow copyright on say the shape of a car, that only stops you reproducing something of (substantially) the same shape, not a photo of it. Justinc 10:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Justin, have you read what I wrote just above, concerning the use of cars in advertisements? --Teofilo 23:00, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I read it, but it is from a photo site, not a proper legal source. Photo agencies are very paranoid, requiring all sorts of signed releases for stuff even though there is no legal basis. If you can back it up with a real legal source it might be meaningful. Justinc 13:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Do you mean that images of commercial products cannot be released under a free license at all, or that we should merely not host them on Commons? Because if the former was true, non-fair use projects like de could not illustrate articles on commercial items at all, while in the latter case, it would only be a major inconvenience since every image could still to be uploaded to the projects directly. --grmwnr 10:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What I suggest is this : Commons_talk:Licensing#We_need_a_new_license. And non-fair use projects perhaps should rethink their policy. --Teofilo 01:15, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Request legal advice I'm going to ask the Wikimedia Foundation's lawyers about this. David.Monniaux 14:48, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea ! --Teofilo 01:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Any lawyer notification yet? Otherwise, someone should to remove and delete. Please, however, save the image to your own drive before you do so. Cary "Bastique" Bass parler voir 13:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's some rather loose terminology employed here. What you seem to be confusing is several distinct intellectual property rights. First there is the copyright that Nokia holds on the appearance of the item in question. Then there is the trademarks displayed on the phone, including the name Nokia itself. Third we have the design right in the phone. I don't know whether Finland has unregistered design right like the UK, but it certainly has registered design right and I strongly suspect that Nokia has registered the design of this kit.

We don't have to particularly worry about the trademarks or the design right on Commons. We aren't trying to manufacture copies of the phone so we aren't infringing the design right. Normal photos don't infringe trademarks unless used for things like advertising or used in such a way as to suggest that the holder of the trademark endorses what is being done with the photograph. Copyright is the thing we have to worry about. This object is not on permanent public display and so any exception to copyright in that respect is null and void. Taking a photograph with it as the main subject negates any exception to copyright with respect to incidental inclusion of a copyrighted object. This photograph is being used in a public place to the exception to copyright for private research also doesn't apply. If the photograph, as looks likely, was taken outside the US then fair use is not an issue. Fair use does not exist outside the United States and so anyone who relies on it for things like this is skating on very thin ice. David Newton 23:47, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

David Newton, nobody relies on Fair Use at Commons. Fair Use is grounds here for quick deletion. Cary "Bastique" Bass parler voir 13:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Kept - No consensus

Cary "Bastique" Bass parler voir 18:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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January 28

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

REASON -- Made Redundant by Image:K522 multitonality.png (note lowercase "png"). This newer version includes necessary labels for the parts. Rainwarrior 12:21, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • ARGUMENTS -- The horn part is not labelled, and while an experienced score-reader might be able to guess its correct transposition, due to the example's exceptional nature as an example of polytonality the transposition should not rightly be omitted. Rainwarrior 12:21, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Several reasons.
  1. The parts you have written are in English. Commons files must be available for use in many different wikipedias. This file is presently in use at the Italian, Korean, Greek and Hungarian wikipedias. Therefore this file is not redundant.
  2. This type of file is better made into an SVG file. I've replaced the redundant tags with a {{ConvertToSVG}} tag. Bas parler voir 12:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point. I'd actually be willing to create SVG versions for each of these languages if I could be given a list of instrument names in those languages. I would make the point that without the labels, the diagram is essentially incorrect, and in published scores instrument names are never actually translated. The original published score this is quoting from would have certainly have had the names in Italian, actually, and had I realized this appeared in other languages I would have used the more standard Italian names instead. The point, however, of my revision was not to add instrument names, but to clarify the pitch of the top line, which basically should be clear now to anyone who can read a score even though the specific instrument names are in English.
What I'm saying is that, for the moment, a correct example in English is still probably a lot more understandable than an incorrect example with no language. I'll get on creating multi-lingual SVG versions though. Rainwarrior 16:24, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Note that once the image is available in SVG format, it's a simple matter to perform new translations as needed, so arguably it's not necessary to preemptively do them all unless you really want to. Deco 23:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

kept--Shizhao 11:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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