Talk:Cattle drives in the United States

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Improvements

Anyone highly trained can improve my article, for I am a beginner article creator. --Sean gorter^(talk) 03:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

i'll do what i can when i find more time. this article need a lot of attention and most likely should be scrapped and started over. also i thnk the name should be changed simply to cattle drives. in that way cattle drives in other nations can be incorporated and then if the page is big enough expand to specific nation/region pages.--Tainter 18:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely true

Everything I wrote is absolutely true. You may try to give better words to my article, that is, going back to the first topic. --Sean gorter^(talk) 03:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Improved

Took the wikipedia principle to Be Bold and redid the entire article. Hope it's a significant improvement. Montanabw^(talk) 07:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I've done some re-wording. Some of the grammar on this page was choppy. Also, I think it should be noted that the sections about the cow towns could stand to be revised. The section entitled "cow towns" is fairly good, but some of the information in unnecessarily repeated in other parts of the article. But I personally don't know enough about them to feel comfortable making the changes. Vervaine (talk) 21:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Anything helps. The article needs a major fumigation, but with sources, and I haven't had the time to do it. Montanabw^(talk) 02:51, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the term "cow town" wasn't actually used much during the period covered by the "cow town" section. One of the quoted sources (Dykstra) actually notes that "cattle town" was the preferred period term, and that "cow town" was considered disparaging in the context of the Kansas cattle towns. It might also be worth expanding to take into account towns in other locations (eg. Montana or Wyoming) which might have had a different experience.Intothatdarkness (talk) 20:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

No problem from my end. There's formal and informal use. An encyclopedia can use the more formal terms. While ther eis some regional terminology, I think this is consistent. "Cow town" in practical use, even today is often a half-humorous and often a bit self-deprecating term in the "we can call ourselves a perjorative term, but you outsiders can't" sort of way... the "I can say I live in a "cow town," but if you tell me I live in a cow town, I'll punch you in the nose." LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 21:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Just looked through this again, and the history section is in really horrible shape. The article contradicts itself in some places, and suffers from (as Montanabw noted) a lack of proper citations. Not sure if I'll work up the energy to haul back through it, but someone really should.Intothatdarkness (talk) 18:54, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Abilene Image

Since the map in the article is of Abilene TX and not Abilene KS (which is what's being discussed), should we change it? Or just get rid of it?Intothatdarkness (talk) 22:17, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree. It's silly to have a photo of the wrong town here. Abilene, Texas has nothing to do with Abilene, Kansas or the cattle trade. The photo adds nothing but confusion and should be deleted or replaced with a photo of Abilene, Kansas. Munchkyn (talk) 02:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Which Malone?

Several footnotes cite Malone in the form of (e.g.) "Malone, p.26".

However, there are two different Malones referenced in the bibliography.

Would an editor with time please figure out which is which and then clarify in the article? Tx Oconnell usa (talk) 20:46, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Based on my experience with the Michael Malone book, I'd say the notes are coming from the other Malone work. I'd have to physically check, though.Intothatdarkness (talk) 20:58, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I fixed it. Rjensen (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I think this is correct, however, the "other" Malone book may have been an uncited ref for Miles City, MT being an eventual railhead. Maybe take those refs that were removed and toss them here on the talk page for the benefit of future editors. Montanabw^(talk) 06:43, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Davy Crockett

The tale of the young Davy Crockett helping on a 400-mile cattle drive sounds apocryphal.

Most scholars agree that he was born on August 17, 1786. Most cattle drives take place in the spring. Thus, a cattle drive in 1790 would have begun around April, 1790. But Crockett was only 3 years old at that time.

Moreover, driving Longhorn cattle was fraught with danger, from being gored to drowning while crossing the Sabine River into Louisiana and many other dangers on the trail. Cowboys worked constantly to keep the cattle on the trail, and they enjoyed little sleep, because they had to take shifts every four hours all night to guard the herd. Food would have been very bad - the chuck wagon was not invented until 1866.

Most cattle drives average about 15 to 20 miles per day, depending on the weather, rivers to ford, etc. Thus, a 400-mile cattle drive would have taken at least 3 weeks.

It sounds implausible that even a frontiersman as capable as Davy Crockett could accomplish this task at the age of 3.

Some sources have apparently seen this problem so either moved up the date of his birthday or moved back the date of the cattle drive, so that Crockett would have been about 12-years old. The problem, of course, is the absence of any authoritative citations.

I shall be very grateful to one of our scholarly contributors who would research and resolve this question! Oconnell usa (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC).

Probably baloney. I'll toss it. Those who care and try to get it restored. Montanabw^(talk) 21:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(ec):Remember that the reference is talking about a drive from Tennessee. It's not likely that those cattle would have been longhorns, unless there's solid documented evidence indicating longhorns were being raised as food stock in Tennessee at this time. Also, since the section claims the drive was going to Virginia it's not likely that he crossed the Sabine river at any point or went into Louisiana.

I'd vote to take out the section entirely.Intothatdarkness (talk) 21:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Distance to railheads

Looking at File:Railroad of Confederacy-1861.jpg, it appears there were railroads all the way from New Orleans to the Illinois border, with a short transfer to railroads going into Chicago. Why weren't cattle driven to the much closer railheads there? Were the railroads not operational after the Civil War? Was transferring a problem? Was it not a big deal to travel long distances on foot because the cattle could eat their way north?

Looking at the startup dates in List of Texas railroads, it appears that the closest part of the nationally-connected rail network got closer and closer to the cattle ranches during the period described. The Texas and New Orleans Railroad, for example, would seem to make driving cattle to New Orleans obsolete. It would be interesting to know if any new railhead towns replaced the original ones, and to have a more detailed history of how routing changed over time. -- Beland (talk) 07:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)