Talk:Confederate States of America

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Section sizes

Section size for Confederate States of America (57 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 27,695 27,695 Origins 6,837 6,837 Secession 7,734 31,343 States 15,269 15,269 Territories 3,007 3,007 Capitals 5,333 5,333 Diplomacy 16,311 16,311 At war 11 54,442 Motivations of soldiers 1,264 1,264 Military strategy 8,704 8,704 Armed forces 5,878 16,962 Raising troops 5,283 5,283 Conscription 5,801 5,801 Victories: 1861 4,950 4,950 Incursions: 1862 12,613 12,613 Anaconda: 1863–1864 4,709 4,709 Collapse: 1865 5,229 5,229 Government and politics 29 25,932 Political divisions 133 133 Constitution 5,145 19,082 Executive 3,799 5,947 Administration and cabinet 2,148 2,148 Legislative 3,687 3,687 Judicial 4,303 4,303 Post Office 5,453 5,453 Civil liberties 1,235 1,235 Economy 67 31,832 Slaves 3,344 3,344 Political economy 4,869 8,183 National production 3,314 3,314 Transportation systems 4,223 5,842 Horses and mules 1,619 1,619 Financial instruments 4,461 4,461 Food shortages and riots 3,097 3,097 Devastation by 1865 5,255 5,255 Effect on women and families 1,583 1,583 National flags 5,477 5,477 Southern Unionism 6,216 6,216 Geography 14 1,658 Region and climate 1,644 1,644 Demographics 66 12,054 Population 4,163 4,163 Rural and urban population 4,665 4,665 Religion 3,160 3,160 Legacy and assessment 70 19,186 Amnesty and treason issue 5,157 5,157 Texas v. White (1869) 1,577 1,577 Sprott v. United States (1874) 1,958 1,958 Theories regarding downfall 34 10,424 "Died of states' rights" 7,103 7,103 "Died of Davis" 3,287 3,287 See also 815 815 Notes 29 29 References 28 417 Sources 389 389 Further reading 69 69 External links 4,206 4,206 Total 244,519 244,519

Lede cites a children's book for early argumentation

"The 1860 United States presidential election served as the catalyst for economic discussion; the North was a heavily populated, industrialized society fed by immigration, while the South was a traditional agricultural society, economically laissez-faire, and dependent on plantations. Mississippi senator Jefferson Davis argued every state had the right to resist Federal regulation, and could choose the economic system it wanted. Illinois representative Abraham Lincoln opposed this, arguing the Federal government had the right to intervene economically. "

This doesn't reflect any contemporary scholarly consensus; it obfuscates what is clearly stated later in the lede about causes of the war; identifying Lincoln and Davis by their positions prior to 1861 is inappropriate; and it cites a children's history book from the 1950s as its only source. 12.172.251.101 (talk) 23:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

I've removed the lede text you've quoted because it's not mentioned in the body of the article as far as I can see, and the lede is supposed to summarize the contents of the body. We really shouldn't be citing children's books to support the content of an encyclopedia anyway. Thanks for pointing this out. Carlstak (talk) 00:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Confederacy existed to at least May 26,1865

Your claim the confederacy ended on May 9,1865 excluding the battle of palmetto in Texas and the continuous slavery in Texas and elsewhere until June 19, 1865. Also, a Confederate general with an active army group was fighting until June 23, 1865. The end date of May 9 is ludicrous. The true end date should be June 23, 1865 as that is the last day a commissioned general surrendered his command. After that date only scattered forces were fighting without unified commands or without orders from any commanding general. 72.105.174.146 (talk) 10:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

The Confederate States Never Surrendered.

As the Confederate States Never Surrendered, we should go by the end date of the last Confederate generals surrender. That would be June 23, 1865. That is why the south will rise again myth was shouted by Southerners for over 100 years. The claim from the South never Surrendered and would fight the Yankees again. Some cities in the South still had the confederate flag flying until the early 2000s. 72.105.174.146 (talk) 10:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Changing the map? Contested Native American territory

Much of Western Texas by the 1860s was under the control of the Comanche tribe under what some historians have called the empire of Comancheria. should we include this to show that the Confederacy did not fully control Western Texas by saying it is "Contested native territory" Genabab (talk) 14:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Descriptions of the CSA as “the South” and Confederates as “Southerners” should be removed

1. The CSA, while in the South, was not synonymous with the South; the South was a region, the CSA was a breakaway state.

2. Not all Southerners supported or sided with the Confederacy.

3. Labeling the entire region and people of the South as the Confederacy could apply false stigma to non-Confederate southerners. LordOfWalruses (talk) 23:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

"Not all Southerners supported or sided with the Confederacy." The prominent exceptions were Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, West Virginia, and Washington, D.C. traditional parts of the Southern United States which were members of the Union faction during the American Civil War. Dimadick (talk) 05:25, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, LordOfWalruses, Confederates were Southerners. That not all Southerners were Confederates is another matter. But I have the feeling that you're only posting questions all over the place to get to 500 edits. Drmies (talk) 21:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

It’s not really “another matter” because like I and @Dimadick said, many Southerners did not support the Confederacy, and some even fought against the Confederacy (with West Virginia going as far as to secede from the Confederacy and return to the Union); the South is a region, the CSA was a breakaway state. They are not the same. LordOfWalruses (talk) 20:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

North Carolina seceded 19 days before Tennessee

It is never stated directly, but when the 11 states were being listed, they appear to be in order, that is, until Tennessee is mentioned before North Carolina. NC seceded May 20, 1861. TN seceded June 8, 1861. North Carolina joined May 21 and Tennessee on the same day (I think). I propose to swap the names when being listed (which is twice). Auser468 (talk) 22:17, 18 July 2024 (UTC)