Talk:John Shakespeare

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Needs references

I'm not sure how easy it would be to find references for all of the claims made in this article. I think the process should be started or at least slap a flag on the article so others will notice and start hunting down references.Fotoguzzi (talk) 14:00, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Template placed. It shouldn't be a great problem to add citations for most of it, and the rest should be removed. The material is covered amply in several biographies. It'd be a lot of work to improve this article to GA-quality or such; but citing what's already there should be straightforward if somewhat time-consuming. --Xover (talk) 14:44, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Illiterate ?

Common lore has it that John and his wife Mary couldn't read and write. Yet John was Alderman, bailiff, chamberlain, mayor, etc. and had numerous dealings in all manner of enterprises. And Mary was of the landed gentry, with considerable property. How could these two be illiterate and still conduct their numerous businesses? 50.202.81.2 (talk) 07:55, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

It is highly unlikely just from his circumstance that John was illiterate - he was a businessman and manufacturer, and merchants and people of business were the most literate class throughout history other than the very wealthy. It is also likely that Mary was literate, or at least numerate, for the same reason. Her status as "gentry" may be over-stated in practice (see her Wikipedia entry) as cadet status provided respectability rather than influence, but her family were prosperous and she inherited land from her father. As the wife of a merchant, she would need basic administration at the very least, which meant letters and numbers. 212.159.59.41 (talk)

Famous Playwright?

How was William Shakespeare a famous playwright in 1596 if no plays of his had yet been published under his name?

"His fortunes later revived and he was granted a coat of arms five years before his death, probably at the instigation and expense of his actor son, by then famous as a playwright"

I propose deleting "by then famous as a playwright" since there is no evidence for this whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kfein (talk • contribs) 04:59, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Kfein (talk) 05:00, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kfein: We generally aim to improve or rewrite over removing information. In this case, what the sentence fragment you object to is trying to convey is that John's coat of arms was granted in a great degree based on William's merits. And by 1596 William was a sharer and playwright in London's leading theatre company, with patronage from the Lord Chamberlain himself, and whose plays were performed at court. He was a famous playwright because of the performances of the plays, not their publication in print form. --Xover (talk) 06:18, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

I have edited it in a way that makes it read better and removes the "famous" which is incorrect.

Kfein (talk) 14:27, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

It is also not correct to say that it was "probably" at the instigation and expense of his son, since that is complete speculation and not based on any actual evidence. So the word "probably" isn't the correct word. I propose "possibly". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kfein (talk • contribs) 14:38, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

What does the (reliable secondary) sources say? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:03, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

It is certainly not speculation unbased on any actual evidence. See Heather Wolfe's discoveries in the College of Arms. Tom Reedy (talk) 06:43, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Another date

Xover, other interested, I haven't found a WP:RS for exact death date, [1][2] just says September. The infobox template demands a day, apparently, what is a good solution here? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:20, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

And while we're at it, a good ref for approx YOB wouldn't be amiss. This one says "probably born in the 1520s." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Pretty sure we don't have a death date. But Chambers reproduces the burial record from 8 September (vol. II, p. 4). If needed I can trawl through the standard biographies to see if they discuss this. Xover (talk) 19:59, 10 July 2021 (UTC)