Talk:Amos Kenan

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A fact from Amos Kenan appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 October 2008, and was viewed approximately 400 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Ariel Sharon named his former party, Shlomtzion, after the newly born daughter of Amos Keinan, co-founder of the Israeli–Palestinian Council?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/October.

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RfC and discussion

I'm not sure if it's possible to start an RfC on this article in another talk page (trying now), but in any case, I've started a relevant discussion about Amos Keinan at WT:ISRAEL#Amos Ke(i)nan. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I said before, I don't have any objection to moving this article if there's consensus for it. -- Nudve (talk) 19:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Romanized spelling of surname

For the record, his listing in the U.S. Library of Congress catalog is spelled Kenan, and Keinan Amos redirects to that primary listing. -- Deborahjay (talk) 17:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like Haaretz plagiarized this article

Compare the June 21 version and the Haaretz obituary. Obviously closely parallel, a number of identical phrases ("...where he worked as a sculptor and published several plays. Pierre Alechinsky illustrated two of his books and Maurice Bejart adapted his plays...").Prezbo (talk) 18:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You may have a point, although I don't think it's plagiarism per se. -- Nudve (talk) 05:46, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Uri Avnery as a source

Uri Avnery, CounterPunch, 11 August 2009, A Moral Person: The Life of Amos Kenan

This is an excellent source. Uri Avnery knew everyone who was 'anybody' from all Prime Ministers downwards in Israel from 1948 until his recent death. He was a journalist of distinction, a parliamentarian, and writes with personal knowledge of Kenan, about whom we have very few good sources. There is no reason why the deprecation of CounterPunch, where he chose to occasionally publish his pieces, should deprecate by some contagion the quality of the source here.Nishidani (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2021 (UTC).[reply]

There is, and many people have explained it to you in the course of the present RFC. You don't understand deprecation, evidently because you don't want to - David Gerard (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nishidani's analysis is correct and convincing. It is very clear that removal of Avnery's obituary weakens the article. The most official explanation of deprecation is at WP:RSDEPRECATED, which begins "A small number of sources are deprecated on Wikipedia. That means they should not be used, unless there is a specific consensus to do so." (my emphasis). So even if deprecation is prima facie evidence of unreliability, once the unreliability is challenged one must ask whether there is a "specific consensus" (which means a consensus on how to handle this particular case). Currently there are two specific arguments for inclusion and no specific argument for exclusion. Zero^talk 05:12, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

'You don't understand deprecation, evidently because you don't want to.' From a policy specialist, this inference about my motives violates WP:AGF, aside from ignoring the small print at WP:RSDEPRECATED, as pointed out to you above. I suggest you reflect on your own words: 'you don't want to . . understand deprecation.' Nishidani (talk) 11:40, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The source is deprecated, and clearly fails WP:UNDUE for being in a deprecated source. That you like the source doesn't change that - David Gerard (talk) 12:21, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Citing now WP:Undue, you avoid the question directly posed: deprecation policy admits exceptions. I challenged your excision, you kept reverting; another editor also disagreed with you. You asked me to fulfill WP:Burden, and duly I answered why Avnery was appropriate. You didn't reply but persisted in reverting, ignoring the talk page and then throwing in another (irrelevant) policy. It has got nothing to do with whether I 'like' the source. That itself is ambiguous: the source can be 'Counterpunch' or it can be Uri Avnery. You take the source as Counterpunch, I and Zero as Avnery. If you are removing like a bot Counterpunch articles sight unseen, by deliberately ignoring the talk page and a consensus there, you are being disruptive. This is, in my view, a behavioural problem, - refusal to allow exceptions when exceptions are allowed- and I'm not the problem.Nishidani (talk) 13:51, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]