Talk:Clannad
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Redirection for Clannad (visual novel)
[edit]I'm standing firm on this issue, I've deleted the redirection option to Clannad (visual novel) at the top of this page, because it doesn't exist on that page giving you the option to defer to the Clannad article. Why should one rule not apply to the other.If someone typed in CLANNAD looking for the article about the group there would be no mention of it at all in that article.--MaxPride (talk) 19:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
- Because when people search for "Clannad", they come here, and they may well be searching for Clannad (visual novel), not the other way around. CLANNAD redirects to the game since that's the original spelling of the visual novel, and this band's name is not written in all caps, hence the redirection to the game for CLANNAD. Pretty much, no one is going to go to Clannad (visual novel) trying to look for the article on the band, but many people will come to this band's article looking for the visual novel. That's just how it is.--十八 22:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Make it the other way around. Popularity votes requieres it. Makes no sense of typing in clannad and seeing this band first instead of other way around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.171.43.174 (talk) 04:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but that would be utterly retarded. Clannad (the band), the name clearly explained multiple times in their history as a linguistic blend of the Gaelic Clann As Dobhar, has been active since 1972 and has spearheaded a specific style of music on their own and additionally as an influence to many other bands. "Clannad", the novel/game, was created in 2004 with NO explanation of why they chose that name for the Latin-alphabet spelling, other than a rumored summation that the creator may have liked Clannad (the band). ₪— CelticWonder (T·C) 04:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
"
- I'm sorry, but that would be utterly retarded. Clannad (the band), the name clearly explained multiple times in their history as a linguistic blend of the Gaelic Clann As Dobhar, has been active since 1972 and has spearheaded a specific style of music on their own and additionally as an influence to many other bands. "Clannad", the novel/game, was created in 2004 with NO explanation of why they chose that name for the Latin-alphabet spelling, other than a rumored summation that the creator may have liked Clannad (the band). ₪— CelticWonder (T·C) 04:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- I've just put a dablink on Clannad (visual novel) to Clannad. Let's see if it stays there. I agree that it's unlikely that someone would search for the band using all caps, but it's not impossible. Northernhenge (talk) 19:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, just like it's not impossible that the world may end tomorrow, but that doesn't mean we have to prepare for the end either. There is not even mention in this article about a possible spelling of the band's name as CLANNAD, and any attempt to add it in would be considered original research and would have to be removed. Since the band's name is never official spelling in all caps, Wikipedia cannot cater to some people that might spell it in all caps.--十八 00:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- The dablink was removed from the Japanese Visual Novel. If it removed once more, the it should be removed also from this article. Fair is fair. (Anon)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.32.243 (talk • contribs)
- I'm sorry, but you don't understand how dablinks are meant to be used. I don't want to repeat myself forever, so read my earlier replies.--十八 04:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- I do in fact know how they work. No need to repeat yourself. As they have the same spelling, I think it is quite adequate, regardless of their cases, that they link to and from each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.0.153 (talk) 23:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but you don't understand how dablinks are meant to be used. I don't want to repeat myself forever, so read my earlier replies.--十八 04:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- The dablink was removed from the Japanese Visual Novel. If it removed once more, the it should be removed also from this article. Fair is fair. (Anon)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.32.243 (talk • contribs)
- Yeah, just like it's not impossible that the world may end tomorrow, but that doesn't mean we have to prepare for the end either. There is not even mention in this article about a possible spelling of the band's name as CLANNAD, and any attempt to add it in would be considered original research and would have to be removed. Since the band's name is never official spelling in all caps, Wikipedia cannot cater to some people that might spell it in all caps.--十八 00:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- I have again removed the dablink. Please note that the Clannad novel is in fact not officially spelled in caps, therefor if linking to Clannad (visual novel) from Clannad (the band), I believe that these links should be reciprocal. Both are spelled in exactly the same way. The point of Wikipedia is to give each user a learning experience and a wealth of knowledge. If one thing is called Clannad, one purpose is to explore other things called Clannad - to build general knowledge. The Dablink therefor must be added to BOTH pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.201.135 (talk) 22:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
- Do you see the logo on Clannad (visual novel)? Look very carefully now, and answer this question: Does it look like "Clannad" or "CLANNAD"? The point is that the visual novel is official spelled in all caps, but due to WP:MOS-JP the title is decapped. You're just trying to make Wikipedia work the way you want it to, but that's not going to happen.--十八 01:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
- The visual novel is not officialy spelt in caps, the Official name is spelt クラナド (notice kanji, not caps). The caps is given to the english title as a way to make it stand out. Going on what you say, Halo should be renamed to HALO, Sonic the Hedgehog to SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, Fable to FABLE etc. Caps is not a form of naming something, it is a way to grab attention, magazines do it all the time. look at KERRANG or GAMES MASTER for example. It's not meant to be spelt in all caps, as that is gramatically incorrect, it is a marketing device. Personally, I think that typing in the word "Clannad" should bring up the disambiguation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.201.76 (talk) 02:20, May 17, 2009 (UTC)
- Do you see the logo on Clannad (visual novel)? Look very carefully now, and answer this question: Does it look like "Clannad" or "CLANNAD"? The point is that the visual novel is official spelled in all caps, but due to WP:MOS-JP the title is decapped. You're just trying to make Wikipedia work the way you want it to, but that's not going to happen.--十八 01:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
- There's no policy or guideline on this. Right now people searching on Clannad could be searching for the band or the novel. --NeilN talk ♦ contribs 22:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with NeilN and 86.157.201.135, but they are making different points. I agree with both points. NeilN's point is about searching, and I still think someone might search for the band or the comic using any combination of upper and lower case. 86.157.201.135's point is about the structure of the information stored in Wikipedia. The two articles are related because they have the same name and therefore the appropriate link in both directions is a dab link, not (just) a wikilink. My conclusion is that the links should be there. The complication is that the Clannad (visual novel) community do not want the link to be there. To be honest, I'm not bothered about this particular example but the general points (searching and information structure) suggest to me that the links should be there. We need an admin opinion on this, but I'm fairly new around here so I don't know how to get one or how definitive it would be in any case. --Northernhenge (talk) 12:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
- Can someone request admin advice?--Filastin (talk) 17:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Disambiguation Proposal
[edit]Disambiguation links on Clannad and Clannad (visual novel) keep on being added and removed. To resolve this situation how about moving Clannad to Clannad (band), creating a new Clannad disambiguation page, and pointing both Clannad and CLANNAD to it? --NeilN talk ♦ contribs 00:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
(Also note that this is simultaneously being discussed at Clannad (visual novel).) --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 01:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- I think that the disambiguation should happen, to end this whole arguement. CLANNAD fanatics are adding a dablink, Clannad fanatics are removing it, therefore the disambiguation would end all of this. It should also be noted that CLANNAD points to the visual novel, and Clannad to the band. Either both pages contain dablinks or none of them do.. or this proposal goes ahead. It's quite simple. I have posted this on CLANNAD discussion as well.
- I agree with the proposal as well. Since there already seems to be some agreement on this, I think I may as well go ahead with the creation of a disambiguation page linking both Clannad and CLANNAD there. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 14:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
- There hasn't been any edit wars in ages over this, why now the decision to restart an old conversation and move things when everything had settled? I take it you're a visual novel fan? haha ^.^ I'm just looking at the 'move' page's warning: Warning! This can be a drastic and unexpected change for a popular page; please be sure you understand the consequences of this before proceeding.. Filastin (talk) 23:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
- My opinion may be influenced by having scottish ancestry, but I think the above section is very practical. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 01:28, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Welsh???
[edit]I see that 92.4.18.66 reports that Clannad have performed in Welsh. Is there any evidence for this? --Northernhenge (talk) 17:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- The band have never performed in Welsh.--Theosony (talk) 17:32, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Bias
[edit]In "Buachaill Ón Éirne" they took a traditional Irish song from their native Donegal and handled it with great tenderness and understatedness. It was the first time ever such a song featured on a chart-topping comercial album, something Clannad went on to pioneer in. Their diversity was incredibly stark, with sombre songs, traditional songs and upbeat pop songs standing side-by-side.
When Macalla was released, the listening public began to be more accepting of the mainstream material that appeared heavily on the record. Songs such as the pop-flavoured "Closer to Your Heart" and the powerful ballad "Almost Seems (Too Late To Turn)" were successful singles for the quintet. The latter even served as the official Children In Need single for 1985.
This article reads like a review with a huge bias towards the group. The above section is an example. Where did this album top the charts exactly? And how were the singles 'successful' - they both flopped in the UK Charts.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 06:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
- If they flopped, a reference here would be helpful. Until you can come up with those references the paragraphs should stay as they are until contributors of any preference towards the band gather the appropriate sources.--Theosony (talk) 17:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
- Per WP:NPOV we should stay away from these sorts of value judgements. We merely report what they did that can be sourced. Any opinions about the success or otherwise needs to be sourced and balanced. I've removed some of the purpler prose meantime, and added a few fact tags. --John (talk) 17:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
- Lol xD I didn't say they didn't flop. I was being devil's advocate to the guy who claimed they did with no sources. On a more serious note, the bias on their soundtrack work is mortifying, anyone have any ideas for a clean-up?Filastin (talk) 23:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Change?
[edit]This discussion has moved to a mediation cabal case. Please express opinions there. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Regular RfC period is over and I take it we don't have consensus? If not I'll escalate in a day or so. --Sin Harvest (talk) 12:20, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
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Maire teaching gaelic to Bono?
[edit]Is the version of "In A Lifetime" on the album, Macalla, different than the version on Anam? The article states:
- It contained all original material except one traditional song and yielded the group a hit single "In a Lifetime", a duet with U2's Bono (which begins with Máire being heard teaching Gaelic to Bono).
No such teaching exists with the Anam version.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- Listen more closely; it happens between 0:04 and 0:19 of the song in the background of the harp/keyboard/double bass instrumental. Both albums contain the same version, only the Anam re-release of the song is equalized slightly different. The note about Moya/Bono is a confirmation from a public online chat Moya did in IRC years ago (as well as mentioned in passing when asked by curious listeners at concerts and such), but is likely not published anywhere online (an easter-egg, more than anything else). ₪— CelticWonder (T·C)
"16:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)- "Hard to tell or recognize..." :)
- Her opening line is apropos. I've been listening to this repeatedly and what I hear is low frequency noise in the background as if played at a slower speed or deep breathing. Do you know what is being said (gaelic/english translation)? I was unable to find anything online...most sites are using cached copies of this article or older versions of it.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- Her opening line is apropos. I've been listening to this repeatedly and what I hear is low frequency noise in the background as if played at a slower speed or deep breathing. Do you know what is being said (gaelic/english translation)? I was unable to find anything online...most sites are using cached copies of this article or older versions of it.
- Sorry, I thought I had pasted this here already, but got a lot of things going on (multitasking on WP is only one of those things). I found my pseudo-phonetic transcription I did on it about 11 years ago. Use headphones and listen to the instrumental between 4 seconds and 19 seconds. It's before "Hard to tell...", and sounds like this:
Time (approx)
Who/What is spoken, and where in stereo field 0:02.8 (breathe in, at right) 0:04.5 Male, at left: 'n coh-mah-neesh 0:08.7 both, (echoed): na-na-naga shtee shtees, Male, at right: nah coom blee-ooh 0:11.9 Female, at left: shtee shtee shtees 0:14.8 (breathe in, at left) 0:15.9 both, (echoed): coh-mah shtees coh-lash-stees loo 0:18.0 Male, at right: 'n coh-mah-"witchcraft"(?) 0:19.2 Female, at left: yeh
- It was well before Moya became a Celtic Christian, so I dunno. Unfortunately when I asked her about it, she wasn't more clear than that it was her "teaching Bono Gaelic". I swear I thought I saved the chat log, but can't find it. I'm about to ask around a few people and websites who participated if they have it somewhere. ₪— CelticWonder (T·C)
"19:27, 30 March 2010 (UTC)- Go raibh maith agat. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
- Sure thing! I hope you enjoyed this unique discovery now that you have an idea what you're listening for. :) ₪— CelticWonder (T·C)
"01:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
- Sure thing! I hope you enjoyed this unique discovery now that you have an idea what you're listening for. :) ₪— CelticWonder (T·C)
- Go raibh maith agat. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
- It was well before Moya became a Celtic Christian, so I dunno. Unfortunately when I asked her about it, she wasn't more clear than that it was her "teaching Bono Gaelic". I swear I thought I saved the chat log, but can't find it. I'm about to ask around a few people and websites who participated if they have it somewhere. ₪— CelticWonder (T·C)
unplugged album?
[edit]Máire's page currently claims that this would be released in 2009, while this page currently has Pádraig saying something similar (in a Feb 2009 interview). Does anybody have an update? ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 13:37, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
- I wish I could help! All Clannad fans, including myself, have asked this question throughout the years. Clannad have been "working on" a new album for almost 15 years now, but this is the latest news report available [= Filastin (talk) 21:49, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, clearly I've inadvertently hit a sore spot - sorry! It would probably help the article (and Máire's) if something to this effect was added - do you fancy doing the deed? ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 23:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Proposed merger of band member biographies
[edit]I propose that Ciarán Brennan be merged here, and Pádraig Duggan and Noel Duggan be merged to The Duggans. All three biographies have insufficient content to justify remaining as separate articles. – Fayenatic (talk) 18:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Irish surname spellings
[edit]"Clannad are a family band composed of siblings Moya Brennan (Irish: Máire Ní Bhraonáin), Ciarán Brennan (Irish: Ciarán Ó Braonáin), Pól Brennan (Irish: Pól Ó Braonáin)." Why is Maire "bHrao..." and the others "brao...". If it is a mistake, which is wrong? -- SGBailey (talk) 17:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's correct: it's Gaelic grammar. The initial letter is "aspirated" i.e. an 'h' is added when certain initial letters (including B) are preceded by "Ní" (meaning "daughter of"). It changes the pronunciation from "B" to "Vr". DeCausa (talk) 17:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's called Lenition. See this. DeCausa (talk) 17:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
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This article says Enya left Clannad in 1981 and Enya says it was 1982. Which is it? Stifle (talk) 08:20, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
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"Farewell Tour"
[edit]The Web site of the band states that the 2020 Tour will be their final one, especially since one of the band members is now gone. I think it would be a good idea to include that into the main article. I can confirm that there at least is a 2020 tour, sincde I have bought a concert ticket only recently. Alrik Fassbauer (talk) 19:51, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Edit : Announcement : https://www.loudersound.com/news/clannad-announce-in-a-lifetime-farewell-uk-tour Alrik Fassbauer (talk) 20:10, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Changed the IPA
[edit]I've changed the IPA for "Clannad" in this article from [kl̪ˠan̪ˠad̪ˠ] to [ˈkl̪ˠan̪ˠəd̪ˠ] which I feel is more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Radicalkiwi (talk • contribs) 14:42, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Redirect to disambiguation page
[edit]Pageview statistics indicate that Clannad (video game) gets roughly as many and often more pageviews than this page per day. I therefore propose switching Clannad to the disambiguation page, not this one. I notice this was discussed above, but it's been more than ten years since. Banedon (talk) 05:24, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- I have gone ahead and made this move. Banedon (talk) 01:52, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- You broke a whole lot of links with that move. Suggest you propose a move discussion to establish clearer consensus. older ≠ wiser 02:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Requested move 12 August 2021
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: No consensus — Amakuru (talk) 01:52, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
– Both this page and Clannad (video game) get roughly as many pageviews per day. Banedon (talk) 02:52, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Support per nom. No clear 100% primary topic between the two big ones. The safest bet would be to have the disambiguation page at the basename. Paintspot Infez (talk) 15:15, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Weak support with the exception of a spike the views[[1]] seem to be close enough. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:18, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose Unless you can show evidence that the video game was not actually named after the band, as with Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. I believe that is a distinct possibility. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:02, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
- The game was indeed named after the band. The importance of family is the main theme of the game, and the main scenario writer mistakenly thought clannad meant "family" in Irish instead of looking further into its etymology. Due to its derivation, and the fact that the band is more notable and enduring than the game and its adaptations towards what is a niche market, I also oppose this move.--十八 22:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose. Except for the first months of this year, the page view statistics indicate that the article on the band has significantly higher traffic than other meanings. Otherwise, in terms of broader WP:DPT measures, the other numbers would also seem to suggest the band as a primary topic: Incl WP direct backlinks (477 v 43), Google scholar (549 v 322), etc. Guliolopez (talk) 17:23, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
- The pageviews for Clannad (video game) pre-November 2020 were so low that I couldn't believe it. Checking the history, at the end of December 2020 the article Clannad (visual novel) was renamed to Clannad (video game). Clannad (visual novel) had comfortably more pageviews than Clannad, c.f. [2]. Also the Google Scholar search for Clannad (music) can be misleading - it will after all find results for the music of the game. Searching for Clannad music -game yields 299 results. Banedon (talk) 21:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
- PS: The RM doesn't say Clannad should be redirected to Clannad_(video game). It says redirect to disambiguation page. Your statistics actually make it seem pretty clear that Clannad (video game) is, at least, nearly as notable as Clannad. Banedon (talk) 21:37, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose. The band has years of built-up momentum, and more staying power than the video game. Certainly the band is primary. Binksternet (talk) 19:07, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
- Slightly disagree here - Clannad (video game) is really an article about the media franchise, consisting of the VN, the extremely popular anime adaptation (Clannad After Story is the 14th highest rated anime of all time according to MAL users) and various other media. Per Banedon's interpretation of Guliolopez's stats, I think the difference in notability isn't as great as you seem to make it out to be. Zudo (talk • contribs) 08:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
- Mild Oppose Seems fine as is. North8000 (talk) 00:45, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Support per nom and Banedon's comments. Not a huge deal though, existing hatnotes could probably suffice. Zudo (talk • contribs) 08:44, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose. Oh, come on. This is pure WP:RECENTISM. Very clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:23, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- Support. In the multi-year pageviews presented by Banedon, Clannad (visual novel) had consistently higher pageviews than Clannad the band. After the move, is still a lot of traffic to Clannad (visual novel) from links which haven't been cleaned up; it's not clear to me whether they should be added to the pageviews for Clannad (video game) or whether they are already included. Regardless, the results are close, and statistics are generally the most reliable tool when deciding between two pop culture topics. I see no primary topic here. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
- Support Page views demonstrate there is not a clear primary topic. Recentism is often a factor when it comes to topics like video games, but this appears to be a game series that has been around for as long as Wikipedia itself -- if a subject has been able to run up page views for over a decade and a half, its not recentism in play, and it is really just WP:CRYSTALBALL to assume that in another decade the status quo will change.--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:51, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
Irish language, not Gaelic
[edit]The Irish language is repeatedly called "Gaelic" in this article, despite the fact that Wikipedia's own page calls it, quite correctly, Irish. In two decades I have NEVER heard anyone in Ireland refer to the language otherwise, at least, not while speaking English. In Irish it's "Gaeilge", which is also not "Gaelic". Perhaps only linguists refer to it as Gaelic, when relating the language to others. Since this is not a page about linguistics, it would seem the case is closed. Can someone with more patience than I please change this? Robin726 (talk) 01:56, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
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