Talk:Hamas

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Section sizes

Section size for Hamas (55 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 41,967 41,967 Etymology 532 532 History 8,950 8,950 Political and religious positions 40 71,554 Policies and attitudes towards Israel 47 35,351 1988–2005 (first charter) 3,817 3,817 2006–2007 (ambiguity) 6,922 6,922 2008–2012 (two spokesmen, four stances) 10,203 10,203 2017–2022 (new charter) 3,291 3,291 2023 – present (all-out war) 5,772 5,772 Comments from non-Hamas-members 5,299 5,299 Religious policy 26 7,554 In the Gaza Strip 4,439 4,439 In the West Bank 3,089 3,089 Erdoğan's Turkey as a role model 4,033 4,033 1988 Hamas Charter 11,271 18,582 Antisemitism 7,311 7,311 2017 charter 5,994 5,994 Organization 18 37,999 Leadership and structure 2,571 4,717 Political Bureau 2,146 2,146 Finances and funding 11,461 11,461 Social services wing 5,033 5,033 Military wing 5,646 6,729 Gaza forces, October 2023 1,083 1,083 Media 12 8,790 Al-Aqsa TV 4,722 4,722 Al-Fateh magazine 1,492 1,492 Social media 2,564 2,564 Internal security 1,251 1,251 Violence 1,299 82,550 Attacks on civilians 18,965 18,965 Rocket attacks on Israel 4,637 4,637 Attempts to derail 2010 peace talks 5,308 5,308 Guerrilla warfare 1,685 1,685 Extrajudicial killings of rivals 9,975 9,975 2011–2013 Sinai insurgency 4,597 4,597 Terrorist designation 36,084 36,084 Criticism 3,980 3,980 Support 12 8,147 Israeli policy towards Hamas 2,707 2,707 Public support 5,428 5,428 Foreign relations 7,925 17,928 Qatar and Turkey 10,003 10,003 Lawsuits 54 8,940 In the United States 6,821 6,821 In Germany 2,065 2,065 See also 192 192 Notes 26 26 References 33 29,951 Sources 16 29,918 Books 22,485 22,485 Journal articles 4,582 4,582 Other 2,835 2,835 External links 3,590 3,590 Total 316,306 316,306

Organizational issues

Corriebertus, with all due respect, I disagree with how you are organizing the article. For example, I disagree with your recent organization of the foreign policy section. Wikipedia:Summary style calls for each subsection to contain a summary of a sub-topic. So "Foreign relations" should contain a summary of Hamas' foreign relations and full treatment should be given in another article. Prior to your edits, there was indeed a summary, but I agree that it was a terrible summary. In your edit, you removed the summary altogether.

The summary is important not just for organizational reasons but also because certain things are connected to one another. Take a simple example. Previously the section summary said:

After winning the Palestinian elections, Hamas leaders made multi-national diplomatic tours abroad. In April 2006, Mahmoud al-Zahar (then foreign minister) visited Saudi Arabia, Syria, Kuwait, Bahrein, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Sudan and Egypt.

With your reorganization, we would cover this information like this:

Syria

In 2006, Mahmoud al-Zahar (then foreign minister) visited Syria.

Qatar

In 2006, Mahmoud al-Zahar (then foreign minister) visited Qatar.

...and so on. In your organization theme, where everything is broken down by countries, a particular foreign policy theme that spans across countries is lost.

I hope you will engage me in constructive dialogue on how to best organize this article which is already too long.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:37, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Vice regent: for discussing this point, here. I (still) consider section ‘Foreign relations’ (very) intransparent, unstructured etc.. But that does not mean, that my attempted ‘improvement’ on 20 May was good enough; in retrospect, it seems to have been perhaps a little overhasty (not necessarily for all the reasons you mentioned here). --Corriebertus (talk) 20:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

edit request on 26 May 2024

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In the criticism section it says that the European Parliament started the 2023 Israeli-Hamas war. This is untrue. GingerNinja2711 (talk) 13:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Done. Selfstudier (talk) 13:46, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 June 2024

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2001:1970:52E9:4C00:F0D1:F193:97CE:EB37 (talk) 03:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
In section two (2) "History" the claim:  Israel responded by invading Gaza Strip and killing 35,000 Palestinians, majority of them women and children. needs to be cited or removed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69014893.amp

There are lots of sources, BBC is a good choice as it can’t be accused of favouring Palestine. Not sure why you’d want it removed. Even with the unidentified remains skewing the demographics, the majority of identified victims are still women and children. KittyBukowski (talk) 11:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done removed as unsourced. Also poorly written. Adam Black ^{talk • contribs} 13:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Typo? Or misinformation?

“The charter is said to echoe Nazi propaganda in claiming that Jews profited during World War II” - spelling mistake of echo aside, the Nazis did not spread propaganda claiming Jews profited during World War 2. Why would they? It would make them look incompetent given they were in charge. They also did not spread propaganda following the second world war, since they were either in hiding or on trial.

I know they spread the “stab in the back” myth about the first world war, so maybe WW2 was a typo, but if so it just needs editing with a source about Nazi propaganda that specifically claims Jewish people profited from that war.

Or, if the typo was using “Nazi” instead of “Neo Nazi” then same goes.

But if it was meant as is, it’s categorically false. The Nazis never would have claimed that Jewish people were benefiting as a result of their actions.

KittyBukowski (talk) 11:45, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

During WWII Nazi Propaganda did accuse Jews of profiteering. These false accusations were done as part of their efforts to portray Jews as the enemy of the German people, and to dehumanize them to facilitate the Holocaust. BilledMammal (talk) 14:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

References for casualties being "vastly" comprised of non-combatants

Only 1 of the 3 references provided actually includes the qualifier "vastly", while the others only mention the estimated number.

If this article must to mention civilian casualties in the latest conflict, it should defer to sources in the more relevant article, Israel–Hamas war, which includes a news article with a quote from a WHO spokesman that estimates a 56% civilian casualty rate, which is not a percentage compatible with the usage of "vastly".

I propose removing the 3 news sources in this article and replacing them the source from the Israel–Hamas war article. Tog000 (talk) 19:44, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The only source for "vast majority" seems to be Anadolu Agency, which WP:RSP says is frequently described as a mouthpiece of the Turkish government that engages in propaganda, owing to its state-run status. More neutral sources also use slightly broader language like "killed during the war" rather than "Israel killed".

I'll just remove the extraordinary claim for now, but no objection if someone wants to add that milder claim with the other source. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 16:15, 11 June 2024 (UTC)