Talk:IBM System/360

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Mystery Pugh reference

There is an external link to p. 323 (https://archive.org/details/memoriesthatshap00pugh/page/323) of Pugh, Emerson W. (1984). "Memories That Shaped an Industry: Decisions Leading to IBM System/360", but that page is just part of the index. What is the relevance? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 02:33, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

It means that the book is 323 pages long, not that one should read page 323. Gah4 (talk) 05:56, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

In Template:Cite book, "page=" means "see this page" and "pages=" means "see these pages"; neither of them mean "this book has this many pages" - there is no mechanism in Template:Cite book to indicate how many pages the book has. The IABot assumes it means what it's documented to mean, and adds a page link if the book is in the Internet Archive.

I've fixed the external link not to use "page=" or to link to page 323. Guy Harris (talk) 08:12, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I clicked on the link and it said, right there: pages: 323. In many other cases, it does mean how many pages, just not here. I don't think I ever made that mistake, though. Gah4 (talk) 19:55, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

It's not the link, it's the parameter, and the documentation for Template:Cite book clearly says that page= is for a page containing the reference information and pages= is for multiple pages containing the reference information - and that pages= is not to be used for a page count.

The bot assumes that page=/pages= is being used for that purpose, not a page count; if it happened to make the page part of the citation link to a page that happened to say "this book has 323 pages", that's purely coincidental, not intentional.

So nobody should ever put the page count after page= or pages= in a citation template, and, if that's ever been done, it should be fixed not to do so. Guy Harris (talk) 22:08, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

no IBM 2260 on System/360

I just removed some recently-added text which implied that the IBM 2260 is used as the console typewriter on some models of System/360. This is incorrect. While the IBM 2260 can be used as an additional operator interface, it does not replace the console typewriter John Sauter (talk) 16:41, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

As well as I know it, maybe from OS/VS2, a system can have a master console and also secondary consoles. As the mentioned text didn't say master console, it seems to me that it was fine, but mention of the 2260 as a secondary console would also work. I remember them from public access consoles that allowed one to check on the status of a job, but not change things. I believe that was for ASP. Gah4 (talk) 17:21, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

It is incorrect that the text made such a claim. That text followed the text for the 2250, which is also not a typewriter.

The console typewriter on a S/360 is just another I/O device. The 1052-7 was ubiquitous because it was inexpensive, and had no privileged role. In a Multiple Console Support (MCS) configuration, the normal role for the 1052-7 was as a hardcopy console, with displays serving as master and secondary consoles. This is different from the role of the 3210 and 3215 on some S/370 models. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:50, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

The console typewriter was integrated into the CPU, though it appeared to software as though it were on channel 0. I have clarified the text, separating the primary and secondary consoles into separate paragraphs. John Sauter (talk) 16:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

The 1052-7 was optional on, e.g., the 360/65. The 2250 was integrated with the system console on the 360/91, 360/95 and 360/195. There was also an option for two 1052-7 attachments, although I never heard of anyone procuring it.

Would mentioning composite consoles (card reader and printer pairs) be TMI? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 19:23, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Probably. It's not a hardware feature anyway. Peter Flass (talk) 20:11, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Feature 5450 on 360/85 and 3066 on 370/165

@Peter Flass: The 5450 and 3066 consoles have different keys, CCW opcodes and data streams from a 3270. If you look at the logic manual you will see that DIDOCS has a separate driver for 5450 and 3066. If you have a copy of the VM turnkey system, you can also check the code in CP and in CMS EDIT.

These consoles are documented only in the 360/85, 370/165 and 370/168 CE manuals. I had copies of the CE manuals for the 3165, but I sent them to the LCM for scanning in 2014 and have not yet gotten the PDFs. Maybe you can track down another copy.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 05:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I didn't think about VM, but the code there would certainly be clearer. Peter Flass (talk) 20:12, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I did some more digging around, and the Amdahl 470V manuals not only documented the commands but gave a reference to an IBM manual that is on bitsavers. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 01:02, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, that’s interesting.So it was a completely different beast from a 3270, not just a 3270 with a bigger screen. I never saw one in real life. I never came close to an /85, and don’t think I never made it into the computer room when we had a /168. Peter Flass (talk) 02:49, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

References

todo template?

The article contains the template {{todo|other= *Describe instruction formats *Describe interrupt architecture *Describe I/O architecture}}

This has two problems:

1. The template documentations says that it belongs in the talk page, not in the article.
2. The template documentation does not list an |other= parameter.

If I move the template as-is to the talk page, will it create and populate the IBM System/360/to do page? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 21:33, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

I started on the instruction formats here: User:Peter_Flass/sandbox#360 instruction set

The template is on the talk page; I don't see "todo" anywhere in the source of IBM System/360.

It was claimed to be empty; that was because it used other= rather than inner= to contain the list. I've fixed that.

But do those issues belong here? Now that we have IBM System/360 architecture, shouldn't that be the page that describes, in detail, instruction sets the interrupt architecture, and the I/O architecture, with IBM System/360 giving just an overview, along with the other stuff it has now? Guy Harris (talk) 23:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

You are right; that list appears to be extremely old. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 06:50, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Compatibility Operating System?

While the original emulator programs prior to the 360/85 ran standalone, IBM later offered Compatibility Operating System (COS) options for running IBM 1400 series under DOS/360 on a 360/30 or 360/40 and 1410/7010 under OS/360 on a 360/50. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 13:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

References