Talk:My Lai massacre
My Lai massacre is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 16, 2004, November 20, 2004, March 16, 2005, March 16, 2006, March 16, 2007, March 16, 2008, March 16, 2009, March 16, 2012, and March 16, 2015. | |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article candidate |
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | ||
High | This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. |
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page. | This article is part of||
High | This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. |
WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. | This article is within the scope of||
High | This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. | |
This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. history (assessed as High-importance). |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | ||
High | This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | ||
High | This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
"Mỹ Lai" v. My Lai
[edit]I expect few if any English language sources or readers use the diacritic in Mỹ Lai. Moving to My Lai, to conform with English language usage. CAVincent (talk) 07:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- I may not have done the move correctly. If a waatcher can fix the error, please do. CAVincent (talk) 07:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and corrected the page back to article namespace. In the future, if you need attention towards a malformed page move, consider visiting WP:RMTR. Aidan9382 (talk) 09:41, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you, for the fix and the tip for help! CAVincent (talk) 03:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and corrected the page back to article namespace. In the future, if you need attention towards a malformed page move, consider visiting WP:RMTR. Aidan9382 (talk) 09:41, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Clarification needed
[edit]The cited source offers no insight into exactly the meaning of the phrase "who has been the subject of pointed blame" with regard to Widmer. Nothing is mentioned on that point in the cited source, so is this someone's personal view somehow incorporated in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.239.172 (talk) 23:03, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
Photo Caption for Image #3
[edit]Willbb234 has twice deleted a well sourced and accurate description in the caption of the third image in this article. I am undeleting now and explaining why. Here is the discussion between Willbb234 and myself on the subject:
Deletion from My Lai article.[edit]
I undid your deletion. The soldiers actually committed a sexual assault, not even attempted, by trying to rip her blouse off.JohnKent (talk) 00:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: I read the source in the caption and couldn't see any mention of this sexual assault. Please provide a reference for this. Willbb234 10:35, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the quote from the cited reference. "In one incident, a group of 7-12 women and children were herded together, and members of the 3d Platoon attempted to rip the blouse off a Vietnamese girl. They halted their attempts after observing that the PI0 photographer was near their location and had taken a picture of the scene (see exhibit P-40). The women and children were then killed." I will improved the citation so it points to the exact page. JohnKent (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for helping to improve the article. JohnKent (talk) 16:03, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: my exact point - the source doesn't actually say a sexual assault occurred. Unless you're trying to infer that the action of ripping her blouse of was a sexual assault, but that's not how Wikipedia works. We also don't know a motive - perhaps they were searching for weapons. This isn't for us to decide. Willbb234 16:46, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault: "Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent." JohnKent (talk) 17:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: "unwanted sexual contact or threats" "touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way". This is not indicated in the source, so we cannot say that it is sexual assault. Willbb234 17:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply] "members of the 3d Platoon attempted to rip the blouse off a Vietnamese girl" - This is absolutely "unwanted sexual contact". JohnKent (talk) 18:22, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnKent: okay, seeing as this isn't getting anywhere, you will need to find consensus to include this. Per WP:ONUS, it is on you to find this consensus. Thanks, Willbb234 18:27, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
JohnKent (talk) 20:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why you are so intent to add this to the caption. Is there any way to know that the woman in the photo is the "girl" referred to in the quote? Assuming not, the addition doesn't belong. It's not like the massacre seems less horrifying without this addition. CAVincent (talk) 06:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- I agree with CAVincent. This detail is unnecessary and not clearly supported by RS. Mztourist (talk) 09:05, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- OK. I agree with you and @CAVincent. I actually contacted the photographer Ron Haeberle and he confirmed the woman was assaulted by the soldiers, but I can't find documentation of this other than his verbal statement. I will let it go for now.JohnKent (talk) 17:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- I agree with CAVincent. This detail is unnecessary and not clearly supported by RS. Mztourist (talk) 09:05, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- I spoke with the Army photographer Ron Haeberle and he referred me to the correct pages of the Peers Army report on My Lai. I have improved the citation below the photo accordingly.JohnKent (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
War Crime or Massacre?
[edit]Recently, an IP user change the first sentence of the article to replace "war crime" with "massacre", stating it does not fit the definition of the former. I believe it does, but as I'm not a regular contributor, I thought to get some feedback before undoing the change. - Bkid Talk/Contribs 17:12, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What counts as a war crime vs massacre?
[edit]I probably will not come back to this talk page ever again, so I am asking this question specifically for the use of fulfilling the above questions?
Are there any Wikipedia articles or definitive, cite-able sources that can give an adequate differentiation? 67.214.195.184 (talk) 19:16, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- It was both a war crime and a massacre. Massacres can happen outside of war, and thus not be war crimes; and war crimes include things other than massacres. But since you're not going to come back to this talk page ever again, why waste our time with questions you don't want to know the answer to? --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 20:24, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Old requests for peer review
- Wikipedia objectionable content
- B-Class vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia vital articles in History
- B-Class level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in History
- B-Class vital articles in History
- B-Class Death articles
- High-importance Death articles
- B-Class military history articles
- B-Class Asian military history articles
- Asian military history task force articles
- B-Class North American military history articles
- North American military history task force articles
- B-Class Southeast Asian military history articles
- Southeast Asian military history task force articles
- B-Class United States military history articles
- United States military history task force articles
- B-Class Cold War articles
- Cold War task force articles
- B-Class Vietnam articles
- High-importance Vietnam articles
- All WikiProject Vietnam pages
- B-Class United States articles
- High-importance United States articles
- B-Class United States articles of High-importance
- B-Class United States History articles
- High-importance United States History articles
- WikiProject United States History articles
- WikiProject United States articles
- B-Class Human rights articles
- High-importance Human rights articles
- WikiProject Human rights articles
- B-Class Crime-related articles
- High-importance Crime-related articles
- WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles