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Talk:Sega

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Sega internal development divisions

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There has been a lot of confusion, in regards to the pages for Sega's internal development divisions in Japan, for CS1 (original AM11/R&D4/AV/NE) and CS2 (original CS3/Saturn-era CS3/R&D8/Sonic Team Ltd./GE1) (both brand names (RGG Studio and Sonic Team) are used whenever Sega makes a Like a Dragon/Yakuza or Sonic the Hedgehog game, for all other projects done by the CS branches (as in non-Sonic/Yakuza games, such as Super Monkey Ball games), the Sega name is solely used. In regards to the last surviving development studio within Sega Fave (AM1), most all of Overworks and WOW Entertainment's history is there despite starting life as two separate Sega divisions (original CS2/R&D7 and original AM1/R&D1) before gaining their studio names during the 2000s and their consolidation back into the Sega fold in 2004. There also the AM3 page which combines info from Hitmaker (original AM3/R&D3) and Sega Rosso. The question is how can we organize this, to specify division name and to avoid this mess in the future? VenezuelanSpongeBobFan2004 (talk) 15:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However, the reason why Sonic Team and RGG Studio are used as brand names rather than official division names is that the divisions can work on other non-Sonic/Yakuza projects but only under the Sega banner. VenezuelanSpongeBobFan2004 (talk) 18:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@VenezuelanSpongeBobFan2004: As I’ve said on the other talk pages you’ve posted this to, where is your source on this? And not “the logo isn’t on a website or a box” but a source that follows WP:V. Your statement isn’t even true considering that Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz HD and Super Monkey Ball Banana Mania are both mentioned on the RGG website. As other users have pointed out to you, there’s also WP:COMMONNAME, where using the Sonic Team and RGG names seems to fit the best. VenFlyer98 (talk) 20:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Check the careers site for Sega Corporation and the Sega Group, this might be reliable and verifiable since there is a section in regards to the development divisions as in: Div 1 (RGG), Div 2 (Sonic Team), Div 3 (PSO games) and Div 4 (mobile games and GaaS), the careers site also dosen't mention the studio brand names for the big two (CS1 & CS2). VenezuelanSpongeBobFan2004 (talk) 21:58, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’d much rather see this kind of info in a secondary source rather than a primary one. It’s easy to get caught up and have OR start to slip in off of just primaries. Red Phoenix talk 12:43, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@VenezuelanSpongeBobFan2004: This does not meet WP:V or WP:RS, this is WP:OR. You need an independent secondary source, not Sega’s website or any part of it. RGG and Sonic Team are the common names, they meet WP:COMMONNAME so the pages should stay the way they are. VenFlyer98 (talk) 04:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's still my belief that these suggestions would violate WP:COMMONNAME. Sergecross73 msg me 19:04, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sergecross73: That’s a factor but I think it goes even beyond that. The Sega development studios were really well known in the later 90s and early 2000s separately from one another, but that’s really the only period that this is the case. Most secondary sources, including video gaming magazines, tend to just credit Sega for games after the Sammy merger in 2004. Beyond that there’s been so many mergers and studios housed in larger divisions that almost all of it post-2004 is OR or borderline, and that goes for Sonic Team as well. AM2 is likely the only exception, and even there the coverage level drops sharply after 2004. As far as we know RGG Studio is a part of CS1, as Sonic Team is just a part of CS2, but we don’t actually know much of anything about CS1 or 2; no games are credited to them and all we hear in sources are a minor passing mention or a job listing or something like that. Red Phoenix talk 11:00, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree. Even prior to the merger, there's been endless debates over who was the developer of the Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog and Ristar type games because they've been unclear and inconsistent in crediting/labeling their teams. I just mean that COMMONNAME makes the proposal a non-starter anyways. Perhaps it'd be more accurate to say: Short version: Serge's comment. Long version: Red Phoenix's explanation. Sergecross73 msg me 13:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shoichiro Irimajiri's claims

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Pinging Sergecross73 and Indrian as users who may be interested in this.

Relevant link: https://mdshock.com/2023/07/10/irimajiri-speaks-out-about-the-saturn-the-32x-and-soas-financial-troubles/

A user recently edited this article to add a claim that Sega of America was not profitable in 1994 through 1996 due to returned stock from retailers, and that Kalinske was given one year to restructure Sega of America and when he didn't, Irimajiri took over and Kalinske was asked to step down. This is a take that's never really been presented elsewhere, as far as I'm aware. While I removed the claim for now because the linked translation is just some guy's unofficial translating the original material and that's a copyright violation, I think it's worth discussing and trying to find an acceptable version of this source. The translating person who runs MDshock stated on a Sonic Retro forum that the original is behind a $50 paywall... and I don't even know exactly where that's linked, because I'm sure it's also a Japanese source.

Opinions on how to proceed? I don't want to just go off the translation because this is an FA and I'm very adamant about the sourcing standards, but I'm really interested in this take and think it's intriguing information. Red Phoenix talk 00:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First thing to do would be to try to find that paywalled link and assess if it's a RS. Popcornfud (talk) 12:35, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the linked page on the MDshock article. I'm struggling to navigate it since it's in Japanese (and Google Translate only helps so much). I was able to discern this page is for a business lecture series, and included six lectures given by Irimajiri, the fifth of which is about his time at Sega, bearing in mind he was a longtime executive at Honda before changing companies. I can't figure out in the page where you can see the lecture, though; I'm going off the MDshock author's word that it's paywalled. Red Phoenix talk 12:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, got it. This is the link to the lecture about his time at Sega, and it costs 5000 JP yen to view, or about $34 USD. How do we rate it as a reliable source for Wikipedia? Popcornfud (talk) 13:14, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At the very least, if it's a professional lecture that Irimajiri gave, I think it'd be reliable as an "According to Irimajiri...". And I'd be fine with that - he's technically a primary source, but so much of this company's history is anecdotal, so to say it's according to him and not directly in Wikipedia's voice would be fine with me. Red Phoenix talk 13:39, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense to me. Sergecross73 msg me 20:54, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Who wants to cough up the 34 bucks? I haven't had my check from Wikipedia this month yet. Popcornfud (talk) 21:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if you did, would you understand Japanese? It may be a matter of how much we trust the translation. Red Phoenix talk 02:10, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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