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Wasn't a "pro poker player" but made some significant money at it. Definitely worth a mention as more than a trivial hobby. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 12:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The lead (or "lede" as some insist on calling it) is far to big. Per MOS:LEAD, it should be a brief summary of the subject matter that follows. Most of it should be either moved to an appropriate section or omitted from the lead altogether. Consider that many people read only the lead of an article. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 23:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The lead needs an overhaul imo, but I'm planning to get to it last after sorting through the rest of the article, which also needs an overhaul. Popcornfud (talk) 23:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Much as I agree that it's in a transitional state for reading, so is the rest of the article. None of us have really figured out the highlights yet so we're gonna have to wait. The lede is usually the last thing I focus on after editing because it relies on the body, which is unfinished. Carlinal (talk) 01:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the person who expanded the lead from stupid shit to a broad, but perhaps "rudimentary reading level for snobs" overview the day after his death, my advice for the "skilled editors" taking this on is to approach it in summary style...early life, the 3 bands and production....treat each section as if were a lead. But ffs get on with it rather than bitching about it. There are vast sources. Ceoil (talk) 23:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS Max, I disagree with your premis that if the article body is weak then the lead should be corrispondingly short...if thats all people read, then should the lead not be the main focus. Ceoil (talk) 23:39, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is (or was in the pre-internet days) very common for indy bands to release several EP's and singles. Arguably singles and EPs rather than albums are the mainstay of the punk/hardcore/indy scene. For example while it is true in the literal sense that Big Black released only 2 albums, their EPs, singles and appearances on compilations make up a significant part of their work. When describing or summarizing an indy band's output, EPs, singles and possibly compiliation appearances should be included. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 04:11, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine for articles on the band's themselves, but per summary style let's establish the context first before we go down the listy route. IMO whats most lacking here is describing Shellac's sound and why it became so influential on post-hardcore. The big danger is that editors pad it out with add a bunch of quoted accolades; which is sooo typical of wiki.Ceoil (talk) 05:14, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that mentioning only albums and omitting mention of their other recordings gives a distorted view of the extent of their output. Big Black's four EPs in particular are significant releases. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SOFIXIT. But it would be better if you put Big Black in the context of Albini's career first.[1] Drum machine, etc. It puzzels me why you needed to open a section on talk to complain. Ceoil (talk) 05:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Um, it's called discussing potential improvements to the article. I think that's what talk pages are for? I'm a bit reluctant to jump in when we've already got 3 or 4 editors currently making extensive changes to the article. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 06:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Max, it looks like I was the asshole here; the article is very underdeveloped compared to his output both as an artist and engineer, and didn't want the lead to lose focus, but shouldn't have been so closed and cutting. Open to revisiting. Ceoil (talk) 19:05, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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