Talk:The Culinary Institute of America

The Culinary Institute of America
Former name	New Haven Restaurant Institute (1946–1947); Restaurant Institute of Connecticut (1947–1951)
Type	Private culinary school
Established	May 22, 1946; 78 years ago
Founders	Frances Roth, Katharine Angell
Endowment	$138.3 million (2019)
Chairman	John C. Metz Jr.
President	L. Timothy Ryan
Provost	Mark Erickson
Academic staff	197
Undergraduates	3,005 (Fall 2022)
Postgraduates	119 (Fall 2022)
Location	Hyde Park, New York, United States; 41°44′45″N 73°56′0″W / 41.74583°N 73.93333°W
Colors	Sage Green and Fire Gold;
Nickname	Steels
Sporting affiliations	HVIAC
Mascot	Sting
Website	www.ciachef.edu

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Culinary Institute of America article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1: 30 days

Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent.

The Culinary Institute of America has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 18, 2016	Good article nominee	Listed
July 7, 2016	Good topic candidate	Not promoted

Current status: Good article

This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Food and drink Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Awards Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Awards, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of awards and prizes on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AwardsWikipedia:WikiProject AwardsTemplate:WikiProject Awardsawards articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

California Low‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Singapore Low‑importance

	Singapore portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Singapore, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Singapore on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SingaporeWikipedia:WikiProject SingaporeTemplate:WikiProject SingaporeSingapore articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

New York (state): Hudson Valley

	New York (state) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Hudson Valley (assessed as Mid-importance).

Higher education

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education articles

United States: Texas Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Texas portal This article is supported by WikiProject Texas (assessed as Low-importance).

Companies

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Companies, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CompaniesWikipedia:WikiProject CompaniesTemplate:WikiProject Companiescompany articles

??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Companies To-do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies
Assess : Category:Unassessed company articles
Copyedit : Category:Company articles needing attention
Infobox : Category:Company articles needing infoboxes
Maintain : Portal:Companies
Stubs : Help expand stub articles located at Category:Company stubs
Other :
- Tag company articles with the {{portal|Companies}} template
- Tag company talk pages with the {{WikiProject Companies}} project banner
- Answer requests for comments

The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE.

Jnormy (talk · contribs) has been paid by The Culinary Institute of America. Disclosure here and here.
BINK Robin (talk · contribs) has been paid by Beutler Ink on behalf of The Culinary Institute of America.

Expansion

This page needs expanding as it is an American educational institution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Destitute (talk • contribs)

Statistical updates

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hi Editors, I'm Robin, here as part of my work for Beutler Ink on behalf of The Culinary Institute. I have a request to update some of the basic statistics and make a few other minor changes in the article.

I propose changing:

In the infobox

The founder parameter to "founders" and adding Frances Roth and Katharine Cramer Angell to the list of founders - Done I also revised the text. No sources mention the New Haven Restaurant Association. The Yale source calls the founding entity the New Haven Restaurant Institute. STEMinfo (talk) 23:07, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The chairman to John C. Metz Jr. to reflect recent changes as supported by this source

Done STEMinfo (talk) 01:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The number of academic staff to 197; number of undergrads to 3,005 (Fall 2022); number of postgrads to 119 (Fall 2022), all based on this National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) report

Done STEMinfo (talk) 01:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the Faculty section:

The first sentence to read "As of Fall 2022, the school had 130 full-time and 67 part-time faculty members." per the NCES link

Done I changed the wording to indicate that the source for the faculty demographics is the school's own web directory. STEMinfo (talk) 02:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the Admissions section:

The Princeton Review selectivity rating to reflect the current number of 75 out of 99 per the updated report
The applications received to 1,887 in fall 2022, with 95% accepted, per NCES
The SAT range of accepted students being 930 to 1200 and ACT composite range being 17 to 26 per this report from College Board

Done In your recommended text, you named a ref that I can't find anywhere else. <ref name=CollegeBoard2024/> You also wrote that the ACT and SAT scores are in this report, but it clearly says not available. I instead used the Princeton Review report, but clarified it that those are numbers CIA self-reported to the Review. I removed the unsourced 2016 transfer data. It doesn't seem important. STEMinfo (talk) 01:33, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the Enrollment section:

Enrollment to 3,005 undergrads (415 transfers) and 119 graduates; 95% of students being enrolled full time per the NCES
18% of students being from New York and 12% of students being international per the NCES
82% of students being 24 or younger (replacing the sentence "The student body has an average age of 22 years") per the NCES
Average GPA being 3.0 and 68% of students living on campus per Princeton Review
Replacing the second paragraph with the following, which is more up to date

Done BINK Robin I learned a lot doing these edits. There were list defined references in the table that I deleted. Those had to be removed from the references or a ref error shows up. Please also include the references in the requested change section, rather than just a ref name, so the reflist talk section doesn't come up with a number and letters and nothing else. It makes it easier to check the refs, particularly if they are being used incorrectly. You can test your future text requests in your sandbox, to make sure the requests won't cause any cascading problems, such as with undefined ref names or stray defined refs that are unused. I also noticed when I went to close this request that you closed it before it was done. It's done now. STEMinfo (talk) 01:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@STEMinfo I've learned a fair bit too. Thanks for your patience with this. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for those stray references in the future. BINK Robin (talk) 20:46, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended content

As of 2024, the school offered certificates in culinary arts;^[1] associate degrees in baking and pastry arts and culinary arts;^[2] bachelor's degrees in food business management, hospitality management, applied food studies, and culinary science, as well as culinary arts and baking and pastry arts degrees for transfer students;^[3] and master's degrees in culinary arts, food business, Sustainable food systems, and wine and beverage management.^[4]

References

^ "CIA Accelerated Culinary Arts Certificate Program (ACAP)". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Associate Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Bachelor's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Master's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

Please let me know what you think! Cheers, BINK Robin (talk) 15:32, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BINK Robin: The edit backlog is getting long. It would speed things up if you posted the actual text you want added. See my draft doc for the TextDiff suggestion. User:STEMinfo/COI_edit_requests_for_novices#Showing_before_and_after_text_side_by_side STEMinfo (talk) 23:07, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@STEMinfo: I'm happy to provide the request in that format! I'll break it up just a little because I think it will be easier to look at.

Infobox

Extended content

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Cite error: The named reference ArchHist was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ As of June 30, 2019. "U.S. and Canadian 2019 NTSE Participating Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2019 Endowment Market Value, and Percentage Change in Market Value from FY18 to FY19 (Revised)". National Association of College and University Business Officers and TIAA. Archived from the original on September 23, 2023. Retrieved September 25, 2020.
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Cite error: The named reference AR2015-6 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference Faculty was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference DACStats2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c Cite error: The named reference colors was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ As of June 30, 2019. "U.S. and Canadian 2019 NTSE Participating Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2019 Endowment Market Value, and Percentage Change in Market Value from FY18 to FY19 (Revised)". National Association of College and University Business Officers and TIAA. Retrieved September 25, 2020.
^ "Culinary Institute of America elects John C. Metz Jr. chairman of the board". The Culinary Institute of America. October 28, 2022. Retrieved April 29, 2024.
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ As of June 30, 2019. "U.S. and Canadian 2019 NTSE Participating Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2019 Endowment Market Value, and Percentage Change in Market Value from FY18 to FY19 (Revised)". National Association of College and University Business Officers and TIAA. Retrieved September 25, 2020.
^ "Culinary Institute of America elects John C. Metz Jr. chairman of the board". The Culinary Institute of America. October 28, 2022. Retrieved April 29, 2024.

This makes some statistical updates and updates the current chairman.

Faculty (note, I made some additional tweaks to this part of the request describing faculty composition)

Extended content

This makes some statistical updates, offers a clearer timeframe, as well as offers some updated language on the current faculty composition to better reflect the CIA's current faculty.

As of Fall 2022, the school had 130 full-time and 67 part-time faculty members.^[3] The school's faculty comprises instructors and professionals from food, beverage, and hospitality industries, including liberal arts instructors, including American Culinary Federation Certified Master Chefs, Retail Bakers of America Certified Master Bakers, sommeliers, authors, dietitians, food industry executives, historians, and other academics.^[5]

References

^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference Faculty was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference SelfStudy was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b "College Navigator: Culinary Institute of America". National Center for Education Statistics. United States Department of Education. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "Meet the CIA's Faculty". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved May 13, 2024.
^ "Meet the CIA's Faculty". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved May 13, 2024.

Admissions

Extended content

This makes some needed statistical updates and removes an outdated table for which there is no data to bring it up to date. I'd also question if editors think it is necessary to include the College Board Selectivity Rating, but will defer to the community's thoughts on that. If the selectivity rating is removed, the box below has the updated text.

As of April 2024, The Princeton Review gave the university an admissions selectivity rating of 75 out of 99.^[4]

In fall 2022, the school received 1,887 applications, of which 95 percent were accepted.^[5] The admitted students' academic profile showed an SAT range of 930 to 1200 and an ACT composite range of 17 to 26.^[6] The school began accepting the Common Application in 2016, after becoming a member on August 1 of that year.^[3]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Cite error: The named reference CBprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference PRprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c Cite error: The named reference CommonApp was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b "The Culinary Institute of America". The Princeton Review. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference CollegeBoard2024 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Enrollment

Extended content

This removes a table that has no data to update it, and otherwise updates statistics and degree offerings, mirroring the current language as closely as possible. The templates don't want to play nicely with the tables, so I've separated out the updated table below.

In fall 2022, the university had an enrollment of 3,005 undergraduate students, of which 415 were transfer students, and 119 graduate students; 95 percent of students were enrolled full-time. Of all the students, 18 percent were from New York and 12 percent were international students. Approximately 82 percent of the student body was 24 years of age or younger.^[5] The average high school grade point average was 3.0, and 68 percent of undergraduate students lived on campus.^[6]

As of 2024, the school offered certificates in culinary arts;^[11] associate degrees in baking and pastry arts and culinary arts;^[12] bachelor's degrees in food business management, hospitality management, applied food studies, and culinary science, as well as culinary arts and baking and pastry arts degrees for transfer students;^[13] and master's degrees in culinary arts, food business, Sustainable food systems, and wine and beverage management.^[14]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Cite error: The named reference CBprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference Data was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference PRprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference Programs was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference PR2024 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "CIA Accelerated Culinary Arts Certificate Program (ACAP)". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Associate Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Bachelor's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Master's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Accelerated Culinary Arts Certificate Program (ACAP)". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Associate Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Bachelor's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.
^ "CIA Master's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

Demographics of student body (Fall 2022)^[1]^[2]^[3]
Racial composition	Student body	New York (2020)	US (2023)
Black	7%	12.4%	13.6%
Asian	8%	6%	6.3%
White	46%	61.6%	58.9%
Hispanic and Latino	19%	18.7%	19.1%
International	11%	N/A	N/A
Two or more races	5%	10.2%	3%

References

^ Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "New York: 2020 Census". United States Census Bureau. August 25, 2021. Retrieved May 31, 2024.
^ "Quick Facts". United States Census Bureau. 2023. Retrieved May 31, 2024.

That should cover it. Thanks for taking a look! BINK Robin (talk) 15:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BINK Robin: The tables really get screwed up with the templates. Instead of posting the whole infobox, just post the lines that change. And the before and after prose isn't just changing numbers - you rewrote a bit also. I'll revisit later. STEMinfo (talk) 00:04, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@STEMinfo: You know, I could have made those prose changes more prominent. That was an oversight on my part. Below is a text diff of just the lines that I'd like to update in the Infobox. As for the rest, I can request those changes separately if you like. Thanks for your patience here. Cheers, BINK Robin (talk) 17:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended content

BINK Robin (talk) 17:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done @BINK Robin: FYI that you still had Jon Luther's name in the requested text. Also, you might want to let them know that an old indexed but inaccessible otherwise page on their web site still says Luther is Chairman. See this link. STEMinfo (talk) 22:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@STEMinfo: Thank you! I’ll pass your note along. I’ve marked this request as answered and will revisit the enrollment and admissions changes later on. Cheers! BINK Robin (talk) 21:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism section

The user below has a request that an edit be made to The Culinary Institute of America. That user has an actual or apparent conflict of interest.
The requested edits backlog is high. Please be very patient. There are currently 188 requests waiting for review.

Please read the instructions for the parameters used by this template for accepting and declining them, and review the request below and make the edit if it is well sourced, neutral, and follows other Wikipedia guidelines and policies.

Hi editors, as part of my work with The Culinary Institute of America, I am requesting changes to the Criticism section of the article. Per WP:STRUCTURE and WP:NOCRIT, I think the section should be redistributed into the History section at the appropriate places in the timeline to improve article neutrality and balance.

I'd also be curious for editors' thoughts on the content itself. I think the paragraphs on the 2008 complaints are WP:TMI and contain some details related to L. Timothy Ryan that need qualification per WP:BLPSTYLE, in particular I think adding the word "alleged" regarding his leadership style is important, because sourcing does not offer concrete evidence of a rather serious charge. Additionally, I think that it is important to include Ryan's response to the allegations and his analysis of why things escalated the way they did. Student walkouts are also pretty typical on college campuses and I don't believe they warrant separation into a criticism section. Overall, I think these paragraphs could be tightened up a fair bit with these changes in mind.

The paragraph regarding CCA protests is also over-detailed and the way it is written is a bit confusing. I also think that change to the way any institution is staffed is pretty routine and doesn't seem like it would be major or critical history. The protests were limited to those whose positions were eliminated but didn't extend beyond that, and I think that is pretty routine and a case of WP:NOTEVERYTHING.

Finally, I'd argue that the final paragraph of the current Criticism section contains a significant overabundance of information that is not directly relevant to the CIA as well as a phrase that pretty clearly seems to be WP:OR ("soon after the Weinstein effect began and because of it"). I think there is an opportunity to trim it significantly to keep the content focused on the CIA and keep the article WP:ONTOPIC.

I have created a draft in my user space showing all of what I hope to accomplish and a diff that specifically shows the changes in position and the textual changes that I hope we can use as a starting point.

@STEMinfo: would you be interested in reviewing this request? I did not use TextDiff because that wouldn't really work to show the changes in position and text but hope the diff I linked above explains it better. Cheers BINK Robin (talk) 21:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb, Melchior2006, and Nikkimaria: thank you for taking a look at this request and making the changes you made. Sdkb, I saw your note about moving the section into "History". With the edits that have been made, would any of you feel comfortable with merging the remaining "Criticism" section into the appropriate places in the "History" section, in line with WP:NOCRIT? BINK Robin (talk) 14:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be fine to merge the the criticism content into appropriate sections. You can also delete the photo of the demonstration, since the demo was pretty small and the attention it draws is, in my opinion, UNDUE. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given that our capacity of photos is more constrained than our capacity of sources, DUE doesn't apply in quite the same way. We want the most relevant/due photo for a given section, but if the best-quality photo depicts only a minor event, it can still be a good option/better than nothing. Readers do not expect images to be DUE in the same way as text; they just expect them to be representative.

Therefore, I'd hesitate to remove the photo unless we have a better option available. I'd note for BINK Robin that you have the opportunity to influence our calculus by providing us with high-quality options for the history section uploaded to Commons. The best options are those that depict historical events that happened at the school, not just buildings (which are better for the campus section, although we welcome good images of those too). Sdkb ^talk 16:06, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Melchior2006 and Sdkb: thank you both for your thoughts. I talked with my contacts at the Culinary Institute of America and they provided me with the following photos as potential replacements. Confirmation of permissions should be in the VRT inbox. The first is of Frances Roth, co-founder of the CIA, which I think would give a nice visual of the person who started the school and could also be used on the Frances Roth article to give it an infobox image. The second is of some students working in a kitchen classroom in 1974. Please let me know if you think either of those work as replacements for the protest photo. Cheers, BINK Robin (talk) 18:55, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the new photo of the students in the kitchen is good. I still doubt the "criticism" section, because it is too much like recent news and based on a lot of allegations. Were the allegations ever proved? The protests in 2017 were about "planned" layoffs. That was seven years ago. Is that really so unusual? Did the layoffs even take place? This seems like an abuse of Wikipedia for anti-CIA publicity purposes. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 17:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Melchior2006:Thanks for the response! I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

According to WPDH, the workers were told they would be laid off on September 22, which would have been the Friday after this article was published. I haven't located any sourcing confirming the layoffs.

From what I can tell, the only reporting on the allegations to force workers to cut ties with their union comes from this Spectrum News article, which quotes union president Raymond Minew saying as much. The three other sources ([1], 2, 3) on the 2017 protests do not mention any allegations of forcing workers to cut ties with their union and I have not located sourcing showing a third-party check on those allegations.

I haven't seen anything about the protests in sourcing beyond when they occurred, so I think there is an argument that this content has some WP:RECENTISM problems. I'll leave the heart of the discussion on whether to include that content to volunteers, but I would argue that this is pretty routine and ultimately not something critical to understanding the history of the CIA. Staffing changes like these are pretty atypical for articles about colleges and universities in general.

Regardless of what the final decision is on keeping that content, I do think the "Criticism" heading causes some neutrality problems, and I think WP:NOCRIT and WP:STRUCTURE both come into play with the section heading. To me, folding this content into "History" makes the most sense from a general organizational standpoint and from a neutrality standpoint. Since I have a COI, I'll defer to what other editors decide is appropraite, but I hope that provides a little more clarity. Cheers, BINK Robin (talk) 21:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification Needed

I dropped a {{huh}} tag in the Organization section, because I found the wording clunky and unhelpful. I've copied the sentence I placed it in below.

There is proportionately a large number of departments, [sic] for operating various functions related to foodservice classes and restaurants.

I really only think we need a clarification on the first part of the sentence (before the comma), but once we have a clarification we should probably reword the whole thing to be more easy to read. Unfortunately, the cited source is a study the school did of itself, and I suspect (based on the "via CIA Archives and Special Collections" tag that one would only be able to access the source itself from one of the Culinary's campuses, possibly only the main Hyde Park one. In effect I'm asking, "proportionally to what?" Ham tech person 01:32, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "CIA Accelerated Culinary Arts Certificate Program (ACAP)". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[2] "CIA Associate Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[3] "CIA Bachelor's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[4] "CIA Master's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[ArchHist-5] Cite error: The named reference ArchHist was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[6] As of June 30, 2019. "U.S. and Canadian 2019 NTSE Participating Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2019 Endowment Market Value, and Percentage Change in Market Value from FY18 to FY19 (Revised)". National Association of College and University Business Officers and TIAA. Archived from the original on September 23, 2023. Retrieved September 25, 2020.

[AR2015-6-7] Cite error: The named reference AR2015-6 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Faculty-8] Cite error: The named reference Faculty was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[DACStats2-9] Cite error: The named reference DACStats2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[colors-10] Cite error: The named reference colors was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[11] As of June 30, 2019. "U.S. and Canadian 2019 NTSE Participating Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2019 Endowment Market Value, and Percentage Change in Market Value from FY18 to FY19 (Revised)". National Association of College and University Business Officers and TIAA. Retrieved September 25, 2020.

[12] "Culinary Institute of America elects John C. Metz Jr. chairman of the board". The Culinary Institute of America. October 28, 2022. Retrieved April 29, 2024.

[NCES-13] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[14] As of June 30, 2019. "U.S. and Canadian 2019 NTSE Participating Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2019 Endowment Market Value, and Percentage Change in Market Value from FY18 to FY19 (Revised)". National Association of College and University Business Officers and TIAA. Retrieved September 25, 2020.

[15] "Culinary Institute of America elects John C. Metz Jr. chairman of the board". The Culinary Institute of America. October 28, 2022. Retrieved April 29, 2024.

[Faculty-16] Cite error: The named reference Faculty was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[SelfStudy-17] Cite error: The named reference SelfStudy was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[NCES-18] "College Navigator: Culinary Institute of America". National Center for Education Statistics. United States Department of Education. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[19] "Meet the CIA's Faculty". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved May 13, 2024.

[20] "Meet the CIA's Faculty". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved May 13, 2024.

[CBprof-21] Cite error: The named reference CBprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[PRprof-22] Cite error: The named reference PRprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[CommonApp-23] Cite error: The named reference CommonApp was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[PR2024-24] "The Culinary Institute of America". The Princeton Review. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[NCES-25] Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[CollegeBoard2024-26] Cite error: The named reference CollegeBoard2024 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[CBprof-27] Cite error: The named reference CBprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Data-28] Cite error: The named reference Data was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[PRprof-29] Cite error: The named reference PRprof was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Programs-30] Cite error: The named reference Programs was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[NCES-31] Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[PR2024-32] Cite error: The named reference PR2024 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[33] "CIA Accelerated Culinary Arts Certificate Program (ACAP)". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[34] "CIA Associate Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[35] "CIA Bachelor's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[36] "CIA Master's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[37] "CIA Accelerated Culinary Arts Certificate Program (ACAP)". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[38] "CIA Associate Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[39] "CIA Bachelor's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[40] "CIA Master's Degree Programs". The Culinary Institute of America. Retrieved April 24, 2024.

[NCES-41] Cite error: The named reference NCES was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[42] "New York: 2020 Census". United States Census Bureau. August 25, 2021. Retrieved May 31, 2024.

[43] "Quick Facts". United States Census Bureau. 2023. Retrieved May 31, 2024.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[1]

[10]

[11]

[3]

[9]

[6]

[3]

[5]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[3]

[5]

[6]

[11]

[12]

[13]

[14]

[1]

[2]

[3]