Talk:Transphobia

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Section sizes

Section size for Transphobia (36 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 7,901 7,901 Etymology and use 2,166 2,166 Origins 6,722 6,722 Related concepts 4,052 4,052 Manifestations 968 15,713 Harassment and violence 5,091 5,091 Sexual violence 1,647 1,647 Physical violence 997 997 Misgendering 7,010 7,010 In society 53 35,358 In healthcare 3,923 3,923 In the workplace 7,142 7,142 From government 2,480 2,480 In education 3,128 3,128 Online 9,893 9,893 In religion 19 8,739 In Christianity 4,397 4,397 In Islam 4,323 4,323 In feminism 6,940 6,940 In gay, lesbian, and bisexual communities 3,145 15,458 Gay and lesbian communities 7,216 7,216 Bisexual communities and binarism 5,097 5,097 Consequences 1,233 30,073 Childhood and adolescence 10,207 10,207 Adulthood 2,777 2,777 United States military 4,622 4,622 Poverty and homelessness 572 572 Violence and harassment 940 1,355 In public restrooms 415 415 Health 2,081 9,307 Mental health 5,693 5,693 Pregnancy issues 1,533 1,533 See also 662 662 References 7,577 7,577 Further reading 311 311 External links 741 741 Total 133,674 133,674

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment in Fall 2020, between 24 August 2020 and 2 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Undeemiss. Peer reviewers: Juliahonda, Myusername101, Jlomax1, Marroyo7, Ezia9.

"Transgender people of color can experience many different forms of discrimination simultaneously."

I think this line needs some work. It ridiculously implies that not everyone can experience many different forms of discrimination simultaneously. Uchiha Itachi 25 (talk) 23:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it is saying that at all. Nothing in this wording precludes other people also experiencing different forms of discrimination simultaneously. Saying A experiences X does not preclude B also experiencing X. It is perfectly reasonable to only mention A in the article about A and only mention B in the article about B. What we have here is a statement about transgender people of colour which doesn't say or imply anything about anybody else. As you say, it would be ridiculous to imply that trans people of colour are the only group where multiple different discriminations can intersect. It is pretty obvious to me that no such implication is being made. --DanielRigal (talk) 02:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

To avoid any confusion or offense, I reworded the article to appear more neutral. ChillyDude153198 (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Too focused on American transphobia?

I feel like this article tends to focus too heavily on transphobia in the United States compared to other countries. A few other countries are briefly mentioned in this section and I added a short section about an anti-trans law in Russia but apart from that it primarily focuses on US transphobia, the manifestations and consequences section in particular. Especially considering there already is an article for US transphobia specifically. Maybe adding statistics for other countries (such as in the UK) could be a good way to fix this?

NotAmira (talk) 23:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, so please go ahead and WP:BOLDLY help to globalize the article with relevant reliable sources. Raladic (talk) 01:25, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I have added a template whilst making an edit to state that the article needs to touch on more countries globally. ChillyDude153198 (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

How exactly is the message on the bus transphobic?

Although it can be seen as anti-trans, it is clearly not transphobic as it is clearly saying that "Boys have a penis. Girls have a vulva. Don't let them deceive you. If you're born a man, you are a man. If you're a woman, you'll keep being one.". It clearly states one side of the debate on a topic and we can't just call everything we don't like transphobic, racist, etc. It has to be neutral. It's like going on a topic like abortion and calling an anti abortion person a woman hater. Cormio (talk) 14:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I'll try to respond to that. If I say "People of African descent deserved to be enslaved" am I merely taking up one side of a debate? There are a few who would agree with the "just debating" perspective, but the vast majority would label that as hate speech without hesitation. When a person's "just debating" statement serves to suppress the freedoms of others it comes across as more than "just debating" to the people whose freedoms have been denied. —Quantling (talk | contribs) 14:49, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

That's completely different though. The issue of racism, as in whether it should exist or shouldn't isn't a debate anymore and we have mainly reached a consensus on that, but on issues like trans politics it's an ongoing debate where both sides haven't had any consensus. The said sign on the bus didn't say anything to individual trans people, it was more of a message to show their stance on that issue. And besides, saying "people of African descent deserved to be enslaved" can be considered racist since obviously slavery isn't different for Africans and for any other races, but in the bus it states something that is a fact, born males do have penises and born females indeed do have vulvas. Cormio (talk) 15:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

The lead of this article currently states "Transphobia consists of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general." The sign on the bus clearly meets the definition of transphobia. And you are misstating the message, it does not say "born males have penises" nor "born females have vulvas". Funcrunch (talk) 15:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is quite literally a matter of life and death; transgender people are murdered or are suicides at a much higher rate than the general population. If differentiating a marginalized person serves to help that person (e.g. a doctor who is proposing treatments may need to know both the current gender and the gender assigned at birth, might need to know genetic (racial) ancestry, etc.) then that's good. If it is merely "neutral" then you have to ask yourself why you are saying it, because it is literally a matter of life and death if your "neutral" statement is easily interpreted as hostile. If you can find a way to avoid them, I plead with you to avoid these "neutral" statements.

As a general rule, people have reached consensus that hating people for who they are is hate. Yes, someone who beats or robs you, etc. can be faulted for what they have done, but transgender people aren't doing anything to harm you, they're just trying to live their lives as openly as anyone else. Bothering them with these "neutral" statements is of no help to anyone, but too easily leads to discrimination and death. —Quantling (talk | contribs) 15:27, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated claims not worthy of mention within Paragraph 2, section "Origins".

Within this section numerous claims made by the original author of these sections lack any direct citation, remain vague, and written with unsusicnt structuring, ultimately deviating from actually discussing transphobic, instead presenting an uncited and misattributed justification of transphobia.

The following is the extent of the content of the article I criticise within this post.

"Other transgender rights authors argue that a significant part of the oppositional sexist origin of transphobia and violence towards transsexual people is linked to psychological claims of difference between male sexuality and female sexuality in the brain's protection mechanisms from committing sex crimes. These authors argue that the paradigm of acceptable sexual behavior that assumes men's sexual arousal is category-specific and women's sex drive is lower and more inhibited causes allegations that transsexual people have neither safety system in the brain and are therefore sex criminals. They argue that studies that claim to show such sex differences have flaws, such as the possibility that more men are deterred from participating in sexual arousal studies than women due to fear of being alleged to be inappropriately sexually aroused.[20][21][clarification needed]"

I read through the available sources, 20 and 21 yet found no major content in this literature that these claims could have been derived from. The sources remain unsupportive of this claim and have been missatributed so. Hence, the citations provided reference literature that provides nothing of support or evidence in favour of the claims. Number 20 is an anthology of 16 essays from 17 authors of including the foreword by Desmond Tutu. Any of which could, and should have been mentioned if any of the content of these articles was actually relevant to this claim. Yet, the information remains absent. Number 21 also fails to contain any supporting information. It has also been cited poorly. The publication date is 2013, not 2017 (https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/books/233).

The wording and structuring fails to be descriptive of these points within the context of people who progenit an evidential basis or narrative root for transphobia. There needs to be a linkage provided to maintain relevance to this article instead of parroting a justification of transphobic rhetoric from unsupportive or indistinct sources. It fails to mention the primary sources of narrative and rhetoric instead parroting a basal description of a theory without vital citations to do so. As aforementioned this should not be contained within this article as it is a deviation from the topic at hand. This topic should be deligated to its own article with appropriate citations and subsequently referenced back within this section.

The article mentions authors indistinctly when in this context direct names, origns of the publication website, or social media, and the author said this must be stated.

Due to 1, missatirbution of references 2, a, lack of quotation, b, the lack of citation, 3, the poor structuring and presentation, 4, deviation from relevance to documenting and descrobing transphobia, I request the quoted text to be temporarily/indefinitely omitted from this article until appropriate sources are found, and editorial revisions made. 2.123.50.246 (talk) 20:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)