Template talk:Authority control/Archive 14
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Template:Authority control (arts) - deceptive naming
Please rename the header which currently is the same as for Template:Authority control - but the template does not behave the same, most importantly it may show fewer information than Template:Authority control on pages about humans and can make users think the information is missing in Wikidata. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:03, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
There is only a handful of users aware which ids are included in the main template anyway, and which are on Wikidata but not included. I see no reason why our editorial choices about what to include and what not should be included in a template header on thousands of pages. Fram (talk) 14:25, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Please replace the deceptive naming of your choice with one that is not deceptive. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- They probably should be described on the template's documentation though (Template:Authority control (arts)/doc) and currently I don't think they are — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Template:Authority control (arts) - documentation and categories
Template:Authority_control/doc#Wikidata_and_tracking_categories - will those that have a parameter supressed still be added to the tracking category? If not, can columnes for the quantity of supression and the quantity of total ids if not supressed be added to the documentation table? In case that is not possible can an extra table be made for Template:Authority control (arts) that shows the supression? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- https://w.wiki/5dfY 572450 results in 62862 ms - but Template:Authority control/doc#Wikidata and tracking categories 543848 for ISNI. Difference 28602. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- So? There is no reason that enwiki should duplicate Wikidata. Fram (talk) 06:40, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Not sure if I understand the question fully. Please can you elaborate? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Should DBI been included as Biographical dictionary for Italy?
Dear all, should we include Dizionario Biografico degli Italiani as a Biographical dictionary for Italy? On wikidata we have over 30 360 biographies covered. --Luckyz (talk) 13:45, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
- Dear Luckyz, I support this addition. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 20:08, 29 September 2022 (UTC).
- @Luckyz: feel free to code this up in Module:Authority control/sandbox — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:04, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
- @MSGJ: I tried but I don't know how to test the sandbox and, given my restricted programming skills, I could bet something is always wrong on the first try. --Luckyz (talk) 14:26, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
- I'll take a look — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:07, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- The pattern
[a-z]+(\-[a-z]+)*(_res\-[0-9a-f]{8}(\-[0-9a-f]{4}){3}\-[0-9a-f]{12})?
will not work because Lua does not recognise the usual style of regular expressions. In particular there is no quantifier (e.g. {8}) allowed and the escape character is % not \. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:23, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- @MSGJ: I tried but I don't know how to test the sandbox and, given my restricted programming skills, I could bet something is always wrong on the first try. --Luckyz (talk) 14:26, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
Yuk, this might work:
[a-z]+(%-[a-z]+)*(_res%-[0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f]%-[0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f]%-[0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f]%-[0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f]%-[0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f][0-9a-f])?
— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:25, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- Testing.
{{authority control/sandbox|DBI=guarino-guarini}}
produces {{authority control/sandbox|DBI=guarino-guarini}}
produces- Maybe we should use an abbreviation (BNIP?) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:47, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
- Shortened to "Italian People" — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
- very good! --Luckyz (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
- Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
- very good! --Luckyz (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
- Shortened to "Italian People" — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
Request
Hi, I have a feature request. Lots of small wikipedia copy their code from enwiki. If possible move all the localization part to a separate module, something like Module:Wd/i18n. This way it would be easier for other small wikipedia to update/maintain/localize their module. Thank you. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- That would be a good idea. I'll take a look at this when I get time. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:03, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Consistency of multiple identifiers
I don't like how different identifiers display multiple values differently. For example in the template below, VIAF has a prefix followed by the numbers 1 and 2. But Bibsys puts the first link in "Norway" and the second link in "2".
I would prefer a consistent display for all identifiers, but not sure which I prefer at the moment — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:29, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Suppression of identifiers
As we are moving away from having locally defined parameters on this template, I am planning to change the way individual identifiers can be suppressed.
Instead of defining them blank, i.e. |GND=
and |DBI=
, we will do something like |suppress=GND,DBI
Does this sound reasonable? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- If the end result is the same, why not? We just need to make sure that the ACArt version is updated in sync with this one, as it depends completely on the "|DBI= " syntax. Fram (talk) 15:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- It would certainly make the coding easier to maintain on that template — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
This is now coded on sandbox and available for testing. It will take the identifier's acronym (e.g. GND) or the identifier's property number (e.g. P227). So |suppress=GND, DBI
is equivalent to |suppress=P227, P1986
or |suppress=227, 1986
. Also deployed on Template:Authority control (arts)/sandbox — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:47, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
- The Arts sandbox states at the top "Lua error in Module:Authority_control/sandbox at line 273: variable 'extrap' is not declared."? Fram (talk) 08:52, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- Think I was just tweaking something at that time. All my tests have passed so it should be ready to deploy (along with changes described in #Article covers multiple items) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks! I just made one minor tweak in the sandbox[1], obviously feel free to revert if I misunderstood things. Otherwise, this seems good to go, thank you. Fram (talk) 09:07, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Think I was just tweaking something at that time. All my tests have passed so it should be ready to deploy (along with changes described in #Article covers multiple items) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
CANTIC
It seems that the transition from CANTIC and CANTICN has largely been completed as there are very few CANTIC IDs in use now. I think we can switch off CANTIC in the near future. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
- This has now been removed from the template — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:40, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
WorldCat (via VIAF)
As noted many times in the archives (e.g. Template talk:Authority control/Archive 12#Broken identifiers), the WorldCat (via VIAF) links do not work in most cases. I think it is time to simply remove them from this template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Items assigned to "parameters different on Wikidata" category when they are almost the same
- Retrieved from archive — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:48, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
I have been working on pages in the category Category:Pages using authority control with parameters different on Wikidata and noticed that a number of them point to the same final location but are recorded slightly differently. For example at Lisa Goldberg (since fixed but you can look at the history) the authority control had BNF=cb12392245t but Wikidata had BNF=12392245t which was causing 2 items to appear in the Authority Control on enwiki. My thoughts about options for dealing with this are
- Someone regularly running AWB to change the value at BNF in enwiki to remove the prefix.
- A bot to make the same change automagically.
- A change to the way that items are added to categories to take into account changes like this.
I like the bot approach the best myself...
I realise that this might seem like a small thing but when editing items in Category:Pages using authority control with parameters all matching Wikidata I can just remove the items but when working with Category:Pages using authority control with parameters different on Wikidata I have to manually scan each item to check if it is a problem.
Apologies if this has been discussed before. Gusfriend (talk) 10:24, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- I was just editing Martha Siegel which had ISNI=0000000063681764 and it wasn't matching ISNI=0000 0000 6368 1764 in wikidata which is the same thing as with BNF above. Gusfriend (talk) 11:25, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- How is the module supposed to know that cb12392245t ≈ 12392245t? Are the first two characters always ignored if they are letters? The second example of 0000000063681764 ≈ 0000 0000 6368 1764 seems easier to detect, but we would have to consider whether spaces should be ignored in every identifier or just that one — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:01, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
- Having worked through some more examples I think that, provided the implementation does not make it onerous, would be to work on it at the identifier level. Apart from anything else some are easy to compare like the ISNI and some would be difficult like the LCCN where a record can look like "n/82/207755" in enwiki and "n82207756" in Wikidata. In terms of the BNF is there some way that we can use either the URL match pattern in Wikidata to help or the format constraint which this case says "8 or 9 digits followed by a check-digit or letter, do not include the initial 'cb' (English)"?
- Having said that, I would totally understand if it is too complicated / too much effort for the reward to do. Thanks. Gusfriend (talk) 22:46, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
- Looking at the pre-normalization and post-normalization article versions, the links are the same, i.e. they’re normalized by the module, not by BNF through URL redirects. Therefore it’s definitely possible for the module to remove the tracking category, although it may be complicated (I don’t know the module in that much detail). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:41, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Frankly, it would be better to put all of these identifiers on Wikidata and not store them locally. Wikidata has much better mechanisms for maintaining these (e.g. automated reports on format issues, duplicate entries, etc.) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:16, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- I agree about putting the identifies in Wikidata rather than storing them locally and that is actually how I found out about this as I have been going through the template control related categories and making sure that everything is in Wikidata and nothing is in enwiki. Gusfriend (talk) 21:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
- Frankly, it would be better to put all of these identifiers on Wikidata and not store them locally. Wikidata has much better mechanisms for maintaining these (e.g. automated reports on format issues, duplicate entries, etc.) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:16, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
Reboot
I propose that we move forward with this idea. A few ideas:
- A transition phase will be needed to let editors get used to a possibly new way of working.
- Phase 1: no visual change in the template. Editors who add local parameters will receive a friendly note saying that the template will be changed in the near future and some information on how to add identifiers to Wikidata.
- Phase 2: template will show a warning when local parameters are used. This note will include the Wikidata property used to hold the relevant ID. It could also link to a helpful tutorial on adding values to Wikidata.
- Phase 3: local parameters will be ignored by the template.
- I would suggest that each phase above be at least 1-2 months in duration.
- It will be necessary to clear out Category:Pages using authority control with parameters before phase 2 starts. Prior to this, a solution to the "Bonnie & Clyde problem" will be needed for this template.
— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:04, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- @Luamssuk@Gusfriend@Scyrme feedback appreciated! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:06, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- More later but have you thought about:
- Having some sort of extra message that only shows during preview stage?
- Should something be added to the documentation for templates like ‘’Google scholar ID’’ suggesting adding it to Wikidata as well?
- I like 3 months per phase. Purely because of how the template is core to so many things and on so many pages.
- Is there some way of finding out the biggest users of the extra parameters and alerting them ahead of time?
- I wonder how much use of parameters is due to the Wikidata entry not existing at the time. Perhaps something telling people how to do that as well?
- Gusfriend (talk) 10:42, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- Excellent idea. Something like how Module:Check for unknown parameters works.
- Do you mean Template:Google Scholar ID? Yes that would be helpful. But no one reads doc pages, do they?!
- Okay, can support that.
- I think you will soon find these users when clearing out the tracking categories. For example, I just left a note for Rhaegar I to ask their thoughts
- Yes, this needs to be considered. Also we still need a way to test out the template (without deploying to live articles which are linked to wikidata items). I so wish we could link Wikidata items to draft articles, but this is not yet possible.
- — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:09, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- Looking at the category, it's largely populated by redirects. It seems that these are pseudonyms/pen-names/stage-names and that the local parameters are being used to pick-out the the ids belonging to those pseudonyms where the WikiData has multiple ids distinguished only by the "subject named as" qualifier. Can the template make this distinction some other way? If not, suppressing local parameters might not be the best course of action. – Scyrme (talk) 15:10, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- I suspect most of the redirects are there because it was not possible to attach redirects to Wikidata items. This has all changed, so most of these redirects should probably now be attached to an item. The other issue is Bonnie and Clyde which has been discussed many times. This article does not currently use authority control, but if it did, there should be two boxes, one pointing to Bonnie Parker (Q2319886) and one pointing to Clyde Barrow (Q3320282). I believe the soution is to allow custom qids to be specified in these cases. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:16, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
- @MSGJ: I think you can only link a redirect to a WikiData item if there isn't already another link already present. I don't think it's possible to attach both the main article and the redirect to the same item. If it is possible, it's not straightforward and I don't know how to do it; if you try adding a second en wiki link to a list that already has one it simply doesn't let you: the field to type in a title does not appear (or at least it doesn't for me, and I don't recall ever seeing a WikiData item with multiple titles for the same language Wikipedia).
- An example of what I was talking about earlier is Jane Johnson (writer) who has the pen name Jude Fisher(redirect). The authority control template at the former lists every id without indicating which is named as which (which could be confusing to someone clicking a link and being sent to a page with an entirely different name), while the the latter has an authority control template which specifies those ids which belong to the pseudonym locally. Allowing the qid to be specified might help with bonnie-and-clydes but not with pseudonyms, since pen names point to the same qid (which is then norm, as you noted below).
- Is it possible for the authority control template to automatically read the "subject named as" and "pseudonym" qualifiers for each id? If so, could a tooltip label be added to indicate this when the mouse cursors hovers over the links? If it is feasible, it might not matter if the template gives all the ids regardless of which page it's located at, since it would be possible to view qualifiers and identify the relevant ones without having to click on each one to check. We could then replace all the local parameters on redirect pages with the appropriate WikiData qid while still distinguishing which ids belong to which name. (Or maybe there's an better solution I haven't thought of?) – Scyrme (talk) 22:05, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
- Some great thoughts here.
- You cannot link multiple Wikipedia articles to one Wikidata item, that is correct. But since recently you can now link redirects to their own Wikidata item. This is useful for some cases, e.g. Philip C. Stead which I attached to Philip Christian Stead (Q104586932). The trick is to add the "intentional sitelink to redirect" badge at the same time.
- My initial thought was to create a new item for Jude Fisher, but after reading more discussions (link below) I realised that they really do want all the identifiers for one person to be in a single item. Yes, we could adapt the template so it puts the subject named as (P1810) value in brackets, or as a tool-tip as you suggested. I think this is best approach for pseudonames.
- For Bonnie & Clydes, we need to allow additional qids to be specified. There is no way around that, as far as I can see.
- — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:25, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
- Couldn't you just have a pair of authority control templates, and give them each a different specified qid? Or do you want a solution that requires only 1 template per article?
- If we insist on only 1 template per article, perhaps Bonnie & Clydes could be dealt with similarly to Jude Fishers. The template could be made to allow multiple qids to be specified, but could distinguish the id links in much the same way. So, instead of it being all numbers, each id would be labelled according to which qid it came from (but, preferably, only if multiple qids are specified).
- This could get complicated. It would have to be done in such a way as to not cause issues if we have a Bonnie whose qid is linked to multiple ids distinguished by "subject named as". – Scyrme (talk) 18:13, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- For Bonnie & Clyde, we can use two separate templates (but probably linked together somehow rather than two separate boxes?) because Bonnie Parker (Q2319886) and Clyde Barrow (Q3320282) are two separate people with different Wikidata items.
- For pseudonyms, we will need to use one template because all the identifiers are contained in one item. How to display the "subject named as" is up for discussion. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- Some great thoughts here.
- I suspect most of the redirects are there because it was not possible to attach redirects to Wikidata items. This has all changed, so most of these redirects should probably now be attached to an item. The other issue is Bonnie and Clyde which has been discussed many times. This article does not currently use authority control, but if it did, there should be two boxes, one pointing to Bonnie Parker (Q2319886) and one pointing to Clyde Barrow (Q3320282). I believe the soution is to allow custom qids to be specified in these cases. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:16, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
- Looking at the category, it's largely populated by redirects. It seems that these are pseudonyms/pen-names/stage-names and that the local parameters are being used to pick-out the the ids belonging to those pseudonyms where the WikiData has multiple ids distinguished only by the "subject named as" qualifier. Can the template make this distinction some other way? If not, suppressing local parameters might not be the best course of action. – Scyrme (talk) 15:10, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
- More later but have you thought about:
Update
At time of writing Category:Pages using authority control with parameters contains 6 articles with multiple AC templates (Bonnie & Clyde type). All others have been cleared. I am continuing to work on a major rewrite of the module code, which will allow me to implement other changes (discussed above) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
- There is a major rewrite of the module's code on Module:Authority control/sandbox to make it more efficient and adaptable. It passes all my tests. No change in functionality is intended (yet). Will deploy shortly. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 2 § Category:Articles with WORLDCATID identifiers
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 2 § Category:Articles with WORLDCATID identifiers. * Pppery * it has begun... 17:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Lighthouse identifiers
Template:Lighthouse identifiers has now been merged with this template (now possible since additional qids are supported). Therefore I need to add the following identifiers from that template to authority control:
- Finnish List of Lights ID (P4143)
- Norwegian List of Lights ID (P4055)
- Vitaskrá ID (P3993)
- Danish List of Lights and Fog signals ID (P4038)
- Online List of Lights ID (P3223)
I will sandbox code and give some examples — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
- Some examples at Template:Authority control/testcases#Lighthouses — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:13, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Link to add statements to Wikidata
On the sandbox I have code which will add a link to the template to facilitate easily adding locally defined values to Wikidata via a tool called QuickStatements. It will only show when there are local parameters defined which are different to or omitted from Wikidata.
- (Removed)
In the example shown, clicking the arrow icon will open QuickStatements with the missing values prefilled. Please DO NOT actually press "Run" because these values are just made-up examples. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:51, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
- Actually I have changed it to use the sandbox, so now you can safely run it too, if you would like to test it — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:53, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
- This has been deployed — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:32, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Dictionary of Irish Biography URLs broken
Formatter URL for DIB wikidata:Property:P6829 has changed...
- from
https://dib.cambridge.org/viewReadPage.do?articleId=$1
- to
https://doi.org/10.3318/dib.$1.v1
... so Module:Authority control/config needs to be updated to match. jnestorius(talk) 16:15, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
- Change made on sandbox, tested below. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
- Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:50, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
KANTO
|answered=
or |ans=
parameter to no to reactivate your request.Hi, I wanted to let you know that in the list included in this page is missing the line relative to National Library of Finland - KANTO, that is even reported among the examples in the Authority_control page. Could please anyone assist in creating it? Thanks a lot in advance.--Ferdinando Scala (talk) 12:07, 18 January 2023 (UTC) Ferdinando Scala (talk) 12:07, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- This appears to be Wikidata P8980, but I don't trust myself to edit the config page properly. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:34, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- Just to confirm, this is a request for a new identifier to be added to the template? If so, we would usually give some time for other editors to comment before applying to editprotected template — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:02, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, yes I would like the new identifier to be added to the Template:Authority control, so to have it available as an option. I understand this is a very delicate operation, so I would be grateful for other editors to comment about the request and validate it for implementation.--Ferdinando Scala (talk) 23:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- I have disabled the request for now. If you could make your proposed changes to Module:Authority control/config/sandbox and then we can test to see how it works? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:18, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi @Martin, I tried to edit the sandbox as per your request, but it is my very first attempt to this kind of module, so I'm terrified to do a mess and I need your strict supervision. You can find my edit as it follows - see wikicode for correct visualization:
- I have disabled the request for now. If you could make your proposed changes to Module:Authority control/config/sandbox and then we can test to see how it works? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:18, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, yes I would like the new identifier to be added to the Template:Authority control, so to have it available as an option. I understand this is a very delicate operation, so I would be grateful for other editors to comment about the request and validate it for implementation.--Ferdinando Scala (talk) 23:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
}, { 'KANTO', property = P8980, section = 4, example = '12345678901', pattern = '^'..string.rep('[%-0-9A-Za-z]', 11)..'$', link = 'https://www.kansalliskirjasto.fi/en$1', label = 'KANTO (Finland)', regex = '[\-0-9A-Za-z]{11}'
I edited the fields property, link and label - please check. I didn't touch the fields section, example, regex and pattern, since I don't know how to edit them - I copy/pasted another item, so the values in these fields are the ones of that item. Could you please give a glance and edit/test if it works? Thanks a lot--Ferdinando Scala (talk) 15:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- The section=4 puts it under "Art research institutes", see example below. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:11, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- I changed that value as section 2, in order to correctly place it among the national libraries. Could you please check if it is good now? I have no idea about the other values that I didn't edit. I also edited the label, in order to maintain uniformity with the others.--Ferdinando Scala (talk) 21:42, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- I edited the other values for you :) I do not oppose the addition. Let's leave for a day or two for others to comment. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:59, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot, very kind of you! Ok, I'll wait for others to comment Ferdinando Scala (talk) 00:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
- I edited the other values for you :) I do not oppose the addition. Let's leave for a day or two for others to comment. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:59, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:50, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- Do you have any opinion on whether this identifier should be added to the "arts" whitelist? I'm not really sure of the criteria for that — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:51, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- As far as I am concerned, it shouldn't be added to the general arts whitelist (the entry from Kanto for, say, Rubens[2] or Hergé[3] (they even have his real name wrong) isn't useful for enwiki readers): but if wanted, a new language code "Fi" can be added which has all the standard entries plus Kanto, and which can be used specifically for subjects with a real connection to Finland. Fram (talk) 13:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- The same logic would imply that it should be suppressed from all non-Finland-related articles, not just arts-related articles? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:15, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- If it were up to me, sure... But some people adamantly insist that any identifier added to AC needs to be shown everywhere it exists, no matter if it useful there or not. Fram (talk) 15:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- So in fact the "arts" whitelist is not really relevant to the arts per se, it is simply a more selective list of identifiers based on usefulness? This is a revelation! I always assumed they were picked due to their relevance to the arts. Personally I have no problem using a more restrictive list generally, as long as we include a prominent link to Wikidata, piped to something like "More identifiers" — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:44, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- It's a list of general identifiers most likely to be useful to enwiki readers (everything in English), plus all specific art identifiers no matter the language, plus where needed one or two language-specific ones for subjects with a tie to that language (usually the national library of the country of an artist). So a combination of "relevance to the arts" and "usefulness". Fram (talk) 15:53, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi guys just a comment only to understand. In my understanding, KANTO should apply to show all the book properties and their related authors included in the National Library of Finland, as it does for other National Libraries of other countries, like the Library of Congress, for example. I'm therefore unsure about the meaning of the art-related discussion I read here. Could you please explain? I'm here to learn. Thanks a lot in advance.--Ferdinando Scala (talk) 23:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- I would support a more selective list of identifiers by default (while still allowing something like
|show=all
for when editors think that the full list is useful). I think the case against this would be weaker now that we have Wikidata, and the full list of all identifiers is only a click away ... For the record, I am not comfortable about excluding sources just because they are non-English - the decision on whether to include should primarily be made on comprehensiveness and reliability of the information available — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:09, 24 January 2023 (UTC)- I included a few non-English ones like the GND as these usually present additional info, but most of the ones excluded add nothing to the already present ones, and do so in a language unfamiliar to most readers (and not connected to the subject either). For example, Aurelio Fierro lists the Polish national library[4], which seems to add no value for enwiki readers (but remains available on Wikidata, no issue there). The Institute for Balkan Studies (Greece) has similar superfluous links to e.g. the Czech or Norwegian national library, adding nothing of value to enwiki. In contrast the GND entry for the same institution at least has more info (dates, publications), so I'm more inclined to keep that one even though it's not in English either. Fram (talk) 08:40, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
- It's a list of general identifiers most likely to be useful to enwiki readers (everything in English), plus all specific art identifiers no matter the language, plus where needed one or two language-specific ones for subjects with a tie to that language (usually the national library of the country of an artist). So a combination of "relevance to the arts" and "usefulness". Fram (talk) 15:53, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- So in fact the "arts" whitelist is not really relevant to the arts per se, it is simply a more selective list of identifiers based on usefulness? This is a revelation! I always assumed they were picked due to their relevance to the arts. Personally I have no problem using a more restrictive list generally, as long as we include a prominent link to Wikidata, piped to something like "More identifiers" — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:44, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- If it were up to me, sure... But some people adamantly insist that any identifier added to AC needs to be shown everywhere it exists, no matter if it useful there or not. Fram (talk) 15:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- The same logic would imply that it should be suppressed from all non-Finland-related articles, not just arts-related articles? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:15, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- As far as I am concerned, it shouldn't be added to the general arts whitelist (the entry from Kanto for, say, Rubens[2] or Hergé[3] (they even have his real name wrong) isn't useful for enwiki readers): but if wanted, a new language code "Fi" can be added which has all the standard entries plus Kanto, and which can be used specifically for subjects with a real connection to Finland. Fram (talk) 13:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- @BTW, thank you Martin to add this up and all the support you kindly gave to me. However, I wanted to let you to know that in the table shown at Module:Authority control, the identifier appears as a warning sign, rather than as Finland, as it should be. Could you please fix this? Thanks a lot in advance Ferdinando Scala (talk) 23:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes that was one of the values that you copied from a different entry. I have fixed this on the sandbox and it will be deployed the next time a significant change is made — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:05, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks a lot Ferdinando Scala (talk) 23:11, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes that was one of the values that you copied from a different entry. I have fixed this on the sandbox and it will be deployed the next time a significant change is made — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:05, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
- Do you have any opinion on whether this identifier should be added to the "arts" whitelist? I'm not really sure of the criteria for that — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:51, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Article covers multiple items
For the Bonnie & Clyde situations, we can consider an approach similar to that which I devised for lighthouses, where additional QIDs are listed separately but in the same box. Example below — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC) {{Lighthouse identifiers | qid=Q213804 | qid2=Q18431329 | qid3=Q3739194}} I think my preferred style for additional identifiers is as follows:
In this case, all the identifiers for the additional items will be displayed on one line (no further division into sections) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:45, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
The coding for this is now complete on the sandbox, just needs some further testing. An example with Lindisfarne is below:
And with Bonnie and Clyde: