Interpersonal communication does not work when messages are left on individual users' talk pages rather than threaded, especially when a third party wishes to read or reply.
Being a "bear of very little brain", I get easily confused when trying to follow conversations that bounce back and forth, so I've decided to try the convention that many others seem to use, aggregation of messages on either your talk page or my talk page. If the conversation is about an article I will try to aggregate on the article's talk page.
If the conversation is on your talk page or an article talk page, I will watch it.
If the conversation is on my talk page or an article talk page and I think that you may not be watching it, I will link to it in a note on your talk page, or in the edit summary of an empty edit. But if you start a thread here, please watch it.
I may mess up, don't worry, I'll find it eventually. Ping me if you really need to.
please note this is a personal preference rather than a matter of site policy
Nice to see you back also from me, and tks muchly for the edits on the Corleck and Corraghy heads. I'm amused that the talk on the Brighton hotel bombing infobox is essentially between an Irish, Scots and an English man. And so ironic that we all hate infoboxes! Maybe we should we should walk into a bar sometime. Ceoil (talk) 21:53, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Ceoil. I'm camping in Germany with the family and it's pissing with rain. It's a pleasure to see you. I'm always up for a drink or a chat with anyone, even those I disagree with. I'm glad the feet thing got sorted out, that was a bit embarrassing. Take care of yourself, John (talk) 22:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Re feet: there are reasons why skilled writers/copy editors are so highly valued in the project. Hens teeth; like drummers for indie bands. Ceoil (talk) 22:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That was very thoughtful of you. The weather seems to have broken now. Ceoil, belated thanks for your compliment. Between feet and potatoes, I'm remembering how truly toxic some of the editing environments here can be. Fortunately I am relatively indifferent to insults, but you can see how some people are driven away. Ah well. It's a beautiful day and I'm off to Trier for the day before turning homewards. Look after yourselves. John (talk) 08:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for standing on your feet. Enjoy the day in Trier! Remembering Bach (see my talk), - I had a cantata article to GA yesterday, BWV 178. The one for today, BWV 94, needs improvement, but I'll enjoy Bensheim. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good to hear, and that's an interesting article. Back home and exhausted. It was fun, but I am getting old for long road trips... Let me know if there are any copyediting or reviewing tasks you need done, but I need a day or two to recuperate. John (talk) 16:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome home! Recuperate! Still the same article, in case of interest after recuperation. It's on the Main page, still. On the talk are some open tasks, and the names of the two who helped the most so far. It's great collaboration, and I love it. A breakthrew came today with the opening of the New York Times article. - Listen into the interview at the bottom = meet the person even if you don't understand all the German ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have now two articles open for review, FAC for Nun bitten wir den Heiligen Geist, and GAN for a Bach cantata = my story today, - recommended listening, #4 for fury and surprise, #6 for exquisite lament; the music turns 300 years today per liturgy but on 13 August per calendar. Ceoil, thanks for being already at the FAC, and you will want to listen to the Bach, too! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you John. Today I have two "musicians" on the Main page, one is also the topic of my story, watch and listen, - I like today's especially because you see him at work, hear him talk about his work and the result of his work - rare! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:26, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On 13 August, Bach's cantata was 300 years old, and the image one. The cantata is an extraordinary piece, using the chorale's text and famous melody more than others in the cycle, - perhaps listen if you haven't when I mentioned it (with a 2011 DYK hook) 9 days ago. It's nice to have not only a recent death, but also this "birthday" on the Main page. And a rainbow in my places. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:17, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are so productive. All I can manage these days is shuffling the odd semicolon. Thanks for sharing and for being such a hard-working editor. John (talk) 15:24, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm reaping now what I sowed in 2010/2011 when week by week - the speed Bach took - I looked at a cantata. Many of them had no article, and those that had one consisted of little insight, the complete text (!) in German (!) and a list of recordings linking every soloist and repeating "soprano", "alto", "tenor", "bass" (which is always the same) for every recording (!), which was easy because the source had it that way, and one copy did it all. (example pictured) We came a long way since. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
today's story is about education, 10 years OTD after lecturing our founder). Music for today's feast is Monteverdi's, the best concert we ever did (so pictured again on my talk), but it wasn't recorded, substituted with a "Pacific" one that comes with subtitles line by line in Latin and English: I learned something! - The latest "placed" must have been on one of the rainy days you experienced in Germany, pics taken the few minutes it didn't rain. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:15, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
John, while you are around I would gratefully ask you to look at Troika (1969 film), a recently failed FAC on a strange and unusual film that badly needs a skilled and astute copy editor. It's out of print, and I see it in punk rock terms; more Wire than Sex Pistols. As said many times before, skilled writers are hen teeth here. Ceoil (talk) 20:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it goes towards PR shortly, I hope you will do your worst; as said before am a big fan of clarity, demanding as little words as possible. I look forward to engaging if you have time and best. Ceoil (talk) 00:57, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am really impressed by your edits, thanks so much John :) And please (!) stick with the page as it goes through the various process. Will reply to the talk query soon. Ceoil (talk) 13:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much for such a full and solid run through the film article. You did more in a day than I could do in a year :) Ceoil (talk) 03:31, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And thanks Ceoil for the praise here. Re intermittency; I was here pretty much every day from 2006 to 2019 when my dad died. It was as awful as I knew it would be; he was like a brother or a soulmate to me, it's hard to explain. In the context of my mental state at the time, I got over-frustrated by the dumb groupthink that sometimes operates in a project like this. I recognised that I was not enjoying it, and took some time out to take care of myself and my family, then looked in a couple of years ago, but it was too soon. I never stopped reading Wikipedia and in the end I missed editing too much, and I've decided to come back again. I intend to be back for a while, though I'll see how it goes obviously. But I think I am well and strong enough to contribute regularly again. I agree with you that I'm a strong copyeditor and I think I'm also a gnome and a decent reviewer. Sorry this is so long, but I want to reiterate what a pleasure the VvG process was for me. The memory of that is part of what has brought me back. To more collegial and amicable editing in the future a chara! John (talk) 01:50, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Judging by your start date here and similar taste in music, I guess we are around the same age, and going through that stage in life where we unfortunately have similar losses. I have one of those big families that make parental loss easier to cope with, just about, but do hear your pain...have two other close brothers, but my better half is an only child of only child families, and she is going through a very hard time in the last 18 months as both dies within months just after covid. Its a very difficult and at times dark stage of life, and thank you for sharing.
Re your return here, I hope you feel appreciated; you (a) are not shy of giving your opinion and (b) roll up your sleeves when your interest is peaked. Without wanting to be fanciful, as a content rather than a polish person, I do learn a lot from you and your kind is a dying breed here...often I let things slide on reviews (especially songs and films artciles) only for the next nom to say...but that FAC passed what cant I? Ceoil (talk) 00:25, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS, re Vincent, the satisfaction in article building only comes from collaborations and relationships; we all have our strengths and then they cometogether are more than the parts. The extent that you step up there was ...trilling. Ceoil (talk) 00:37, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for that. I change and grow slowly but I am what I am. I was born a few weeks before the death of Winston Churchill, so I was lucky enough to see the Clash, Damned, Stiff Little Fingers etc when they were hot and fresh. It was a good time to be alive. I recently reclaimed my record collection from storage after 17 years. My daughter had never seen such a thing nor imagined it. Growing older has many dark sides but it can bring acceptance and wisdom, sometimes. Take care of yourself and keep sending me editing ideas. It's always a pleasure. John (talk) 00:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting...so I'm about 10 years younger so; my early gigs were My Bloody Valentine, Pixies and that sort of thing, and early Acid House from about 1989 on. Funnily enough discovered during the week that my American wife was a fan of Stiff Little Fingers when a teenager; "Alternative Ulster" and "Suspect Device" now on heavy rotation in our household and car. We are both significantly into the Undertones of course. Ceoil (talk) 21:54, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Re editing ideas, and I hope I'm not overextending your favour here, but am slowly working up Tomb effigy as a next "broad" FAC, though think I'm a bout a year from taking it to PR...its a huge topic covering 1000s of years with an extensive literature. Its at 4184 words currently; aiming to cap it at 8000. It does badly need to be copyedited though. Ceoil (talk) 21:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be happy to take a look tomorrow. SLF were my first gig in 1980. Undertones yeah but I preferred That Petrol Emotion. I was in my mid-20s for the SoL and TPE enriched it greatly. Stuff like "Hey Venus", "Groove Check" really did it for me. John (talk) 23:08, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Re SLF IN 1980, wow. Without wanting to nerd out too much, the recored versions never captured the raw anger of the live versions[2]. In total contrast, I like some of the English prod, punk views, eg The Exploited's "Army Life", though it is obviously far less nuanced or informed. The line "Went the Belfast where there is fucking fun, walking about with a tommy gun" is haunting in its ignorance and obedience, but they overall reflect a working class and anti-Thatcherite world-view I can get behind. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We always believed "Hey Venus" was about Thatcher, perhaps because of this remix. The Exploited were always too Oi for me; I met them once and wasn't impressed. I got a great impression of the Clash and the Damned from meeting them, also Siouxsie and the Banshees. John McGeoch was a particularly nice guy. John (talk) 09:10, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies for barging uninvited onto your talk page. Please let me know what you think the best course of action is for the following issues arising from the Brighton hotel bombing FAC. It is quite impressive how FAC coordinators do not consider the following statement a provocation or intent to edit war: "I do not think links should be added and I will remove them if you add them". Also, as you said, nobody owns a page on here. FAC criteria warns against edit wars, at the very least this is un encyclopedic behavior and at least deserves a tap on the back. By now, if any other editor had made such a comment at an FAC nom with so many reviewers, the nom would have been archived immediately and there would have been a warning on our talk pages. Do you think this should go to ANI, since coords are either ignoring or allowing this behavior? And what would be the consequences of that for the nom? If I were petty I would have added links and checked if SchroCat would have the gall to do an edit war; that would have bogged the article in the dispute resolution stages for 3-6 months and disqualified it from FAC for that period. But fortunately I am not petty and would not want what is overall a good article to suffer such a fate for an issue which is comparatively not so big. What do you think? Matarisvan (talk) 18:02, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No apology necessary. I'm not sure; I've written on my user page about it. When we see others behaving badly, rudely or in an arrogant or entitled way, sometimes it helps to just walk away and do something else. User:Schrocat gets away with a lot because he is a very talented writer and reviewer. Try to see the good in him, however difficult it may be sometimes. As far as process goes, this is not something ANI would take an interest in, and there could even be a WP:BOOMERANG effect. One has to trust the coordinators not to promote an article with unaddressed actionable points. To the degree that the process works, it has credibility. Like a lot of things on this project, the whole FA process is amazingly good compared to nothing at all, but highly imperfect compared to a peer-review process one might see in a professional context. Sobeit. Remember this the next time you hear someone pissing on about civility though. Take care, and try not to let it ruin your evening. John (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
