Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lusongyuan Hotel

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Note that Chiselinccc's bolded 'delete' !vote was somewhat altered by subsequent comment below Cunard's posts. Daniel (talk) 06:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lusongyuan Hotel

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Fails GNG. Hardly anything in Google News for both English and Chinese name 北京侣松园宾馆 LibStar (talk) 05:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Travel and tourism and China. LibStar (talk) 05:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Found one passing mention here and nothing else. Does not appear to have notability. Note that the hotel might've been renamed per [1], does not appear to give any additional sources though. Justi yaya 05:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC) [reply]

Keep Welp, I stand corrected. @Cunard: you should make an AFD guide on whatever databases you use because somehow you are just so much better at finding these sources. Justi yaya 09:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Justiyaya (talk · contribs). Thank you for the kind words. When I participate AfDs, I find a lot of the sources through databases available through Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library as well as other databases I have access to. When searching for sources for AfD, the resources I find most useful are EBSCO, Gale (Wikipedia:Gale), ProQuest, and Wikipedia:Newspapers.com, and to a much lesser extent Wikipedia:Newspaperarchive.com. I also have access to NewsBank which The Wikipedia Library is missing. NewsBank frequently has sources that the other databases don't have (and vice versa). I also do searches on Internet Archive, Google, Google Books, Google News, and Google Scholar. Cunard (talk) 10:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails WP:GNG and other notability requirement. Though search result presented some links, those are not significant to sustain this article. Piscili (talk) 06:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: no indication of notability, even under the potential rename flagged by Justiyaya above. Chiselinccc (talk) 09:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Edwards, Natasha (2002-06-01). "The Traveller: Short Breaks: 24-Hour Room Service Lu Song Yuan Hotel, Beijing". The Independent. Archived from the original on 2024-05-28. Retrieved 2024-05-28.
  The review notes: "One exception, offering lashings of atmosphere and a taste of authentic China, is the Lu Song Yuan Hotel. The 19th-century courtyard dwelling was built for the fearless General Zeng Ge Ling Qin. After serving as a rather run-down hostel for 30 years, the Lu Song Yuan was bought in 1997 by the Hong Kong-based Silk Road Hotel Management Company, and reopened as a Culture Hotel in 1998 after extensive renovation. The hotel spreads over five courtyards; the main one, where you can sit for a drink, opens off the restaurant."
2. Wang, Dandan (2001-08-17). "Lu Song Yuan a "Siheyuan" hotel". Beijing Today. Retrieved 2024-05-28 – via Internet Archive.
  The review notes: "The hotel was the former residence of the relatives of Qing royal family and is surrounded by historic buildings. Zenggelinqin, the first owner of the house, is described as a national hero in the film “Burning Yuanmingyuan”. ... The Lu Song Yuan hotel is built around four charming traditional courtyards. It includes an outdoor lounge, bamboo gardens and a grape garden. Many of the rooms open onto one of the courtyards. The hotel has 59 guest rooms, which are tastefully furnished with replicas of Ming dynasty furniture. There is a business center, which provides an English speaking secretarial service, copying, fax, internet access, as well as ticketing and foreign currency exchange. "
3. Biggs, Cassie (2004-07-11). "Boutique hotels in Beijing". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-05-28. Retrieved 2024-05-28.
  The article provides 149 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "In the 19th century the two-storey Lu Song Yuan Hotel was the private residence of General Zeng Ge Ling Qin, one-time defence minister and regarded as the "Great Wall" of the Qing Court. Reasonably priced and centrally located in a hutong just north of Bei Hai Park, the hotel has been on the backpacker trail for some time and can be busy. But with four courtyards, a bamboo grove and a grape garden, there's more than enough space for a spot of solitude. The best suites open onto a tiny courtyard at the back where you can sit and sip tea, listen to the birds and contemplate the hotel's 170 years of history. Or you can hop in a rickshaw and go for a spin around the hutongs, many of which haven't changed since their Kublai Khan days. Rooms range from US$10 dormatories to $100 suites with private courtyards"
4. Chen, Stephen (2008-07-13). "Games worse for hotel trade than the 1989 crackdown". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-05-28. Retrieved 2024-05-28.
  The article notes: "The Lusongyuan Hotel in Beijing's Banchang hutong has thrived since the last time the Dalai Lama checked in and roamed its courtyards in his pyjamas, according to some of the elderly people who live in the alley. For half a century, the former imperial residence in central Beijing has been a stopover for senior government officials, diplomats and, lately, overseas tourists. ... The occupancy rate at the hotel hit a low this month - even lower than the July after the bloodshed in Tiananmen Square in 1989. ... The hotel, now owned by Hong Kong businessman Peter Wong Man-kong as part of Culture Resources Development, has modernised its bathrooms, added broadband internet access and Wi-fi, established a 24-hour multilingual service hotline, and reprinted their service guide to cover the Olympic Games and sports venues."
5. Less significant coverage:
  1. Izon, Lucy (1992-01-19). "Melbourne Hostel: It's Not in the Books". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 2024-05-28. Retrieved 2024-05-28.
    The article notes: "After several delays, China’s first internationally affiliated youth hostel is due to open this month. Although it’s expected to be a little more expensive than some of the budget hotels favored by backpackers in Beijing, it will be a good place to meet fellow travelers and share information on getting around within this vast country. The 60-bed hostel is located in a traditional four-courtyard-style building, which was originally the Lu Song Yuan Hotel"
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Lusongyuan Hotel, also known as Lu Song Yuan Hotel (simplified Chinese: 北京侣松园宾馆; traditional Chinese: 北國情侶松園賓館), to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 10:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: LibStar (talk · contribs), Justiyaya (talk · contribs), Piscili (talk · contribs), and Chiselinccc (talk · contribs), I found some sources about this hotel. Most of the sources call the hotel "Lu Song Yuan Hotel" rather than "Lusongyuan Hotel", which may be why sources were hard to find. The hotel may have been the residence of the Qing general Sengge Rinchen (if the South China Morning Post quote "General Zeng Ge Ling Qin, one-time defence minister" refers to him). Would you review the sources? Thank you, Cunard (talk) 10:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cunard (talk · contribs), thanks for this research and the ping! As this is one of the first AfDs I've participated in, and I'm doing so in part so I can observe discussions and learn more about evaluating RSes, I am probably not a good person to judge these, so I will eagerly await input from our other peers you've tagged.

That being said, these *look* like decently significant coverage to my "newbie" eyes, and particularly your find about the Qing general! Looking forward to see what others think, if they concur with your assessment I'd love to help you in patching these sources in to build article content from them. (Also, apologies, I'm trying to indent this as a response in sourcecode but I'm not sure I did so properly) Cheers! Chiselinccc (talk) 11:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reviewing the sources, Chiselinccc (talk · contribs), and for your interest in patching the sources in to build article content from them! I participate in many AfDs so don't always have time to add the sources to the article since searching for sources is time-consuming. (I've adjusted the indentation of your comment so that it's nested under my comment.) Cunard (talk) 06:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Cunard's sources look like GNG to me. I wish I had NewsBank access :( PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:17, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.