Just where can I take my kids?
Alison Godfrey
Sunday, February 06, 2011 at 07:26amIn a recent survey 75 per cent of business class travellers said they wanted children banned from planes.
Many of the 1000 respondents urged major airlines such as British Airways, Virgin Atlantic and Emirates, to consider child-free flights or at the very least to introduce “flight zones” - where children and adults are segregated.
A while back I wrote about kids and cafes and I was told by many readers that cafes weren’t for children, they were for adults. Kids apparently also aren’t supposed to be on buses, in trains, in taxis, at weddings, in restaurants, on phones or anywhere near a parent on the phone, in supermarkets, shopping centres or on communal property of some unit buildings - even if they live there.
Two things really bug me about this.
1) The old saying goes: children should be seen and not heard. Now it seems that anonymous survey respondents and online commentators prefer not to see children or hear them or even smell them.
OK, some kids can be annoying. But have we lost all tolerance? Why do we expect children to be mini adults?
Poor CJ having a tantrum
As parents it is our job to teach children how to behave. But have people forgotten that children actually need to learn not to interupt conversations? They need to learn to say “excuse me” and use their manners. They need to learn that they don’t raise their voice and yell whenever they want to. They need to learn that it is not appropriate to run full pelt in a supermarket and smash into the tomato sauce bottles.
When adults learn a new skill they don’t expect to be perfect without practice. They don’t expect never to make mistakes if they are told something once. And yet, we expect a flawless performance from children, particularly pre-schoolers in public. I think that expectation is the equivalent of giving an adult a French-English dictionary, dumping them in Paris and expecting them to have fluent converastions with every Frenchman they meet.
It takes time to learn new skills. It takes practice. And children have a right to be able to do that.
What are we saying to our children if we tell them they are not welcome in this world, that they have no right to learn how to behave in real situations? That when things are too tough, you just ban them.
Sure I find some children annoying. I don’t like the sound of kids crying and having a tantrum. But I do think they have to go through that phase to become responsible mature adults.
And now the second thing that bugs me: 2) The online and annonymous survey vitriol against children is completely at odds with my everyday experience out with my children. These people must be lurking and scowling in corners. I don’t see them very often. Mostly I find Australians to be friendly and accommodating to children. Most people I meet love to engage my children in coversations. They smile at baby Amelie and gush when she smiles back at them. They ask CJ questions and delight in his responses.
During CJ’s last public tantrum (he didn’t want to ride his bike, or walk and fell flat onto the footpath blocking the way for other pedestrians) I packed him up into the stroller and wheeled him screaming to the car. My husband carried Amelie and the bags and later told me everyone we walked past gave him a smile and a sympathetic look.
It leaves me to question what is real. Is this just a case of annonymous venting where people don’t really think about what they are saying or the implications of their opinion? Or is my everyday experience the one that is false?
What do you think? Do you think it is fair to ban kids? Is it realistic? Do all the “ban kids” calls bug you too? Have you ever experienced a negative reaction to your children in public?
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Alison Godfrey
Working mum Alison Godfrey spills her guts on everything from labour to temper tantrums and playground fights in a brutally honest assessment of life as a parent.
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Alison, just remember this was a survey with business class passengers, I guess if you pay extra you do it for a reason. I haven’t had any negative responses to any of the children I have raised or help raised (2 baby brothers, 2 baby sisters, 2 daughters and a grandaughter) I won’t tolerate tantrums or put any other person through it, I just take them off to the car or out of harms and peoples way. I have been on the other end of kids tantrums and it is painful. I do believe kids need to be able to go to places and learn what is right and wrong, I remember threatening my daughters that they would not go to Sunday school or the library if the misbehaved, I got a few laughs from people out of those ones, but they were the things the girls were fond of. My grandaughter is not like other kids, to calm her down I say let’s go clean up some dog poo and you can use the little shovel. Depriving her from helping is her greatest punishment!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (08:33am)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:08pm)
If parents want to pay extra for business class, then they are entitled to pay and travel that way. Business class is a name for the service, not a restricted club.
As you say, children need to have time to learn good behaviour and manners. My 4 children aged 18 months-9 yrs are never allowed to run amok in public. We work on the principle that we are in charge of our behaviour and we make choices about our behaviour. Behaviour has consequences - good and bad - and they know where they stand regarding rewards and penalties. I removed my oldest child from a restaurant at the age of 4 because she ignored her warnings. She still remembers it, and it is used as a warning to the other kiddies! I have to admit, I don’t often take them out to cafes and such because it is stressful trying to keep it all together. I would much rather have a relaxed meal at home so I don’t have to worry about other people.
I do my best to deal with my children’s behaviour when we’re out and about, people see that and appreciate it. The people who make no effort to control their children’s unacceptable behaviour are the ones who tar the rest of us too.
As for travelling, we did transatlantic flights (USA-UK) last year, and other passengers were pretty good. They could see that we had come prepared and were trying to keep them occupied, but there’s only so much you can do before a toddler wants to stretch their legs or gets bored and wants to play.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (05:18pm)
I tend to agree with Nickylou - if you ask business class passengers, they will tell you what would make life easier for them to arrive at the end of the trip ready for business.
Maybe it’s a case of “choose either economy, or first class” if you have kids.
I can actually see where “Business class” passengers are coming from , quite a reasonable portion of them spend a fair chunk of their life sitting in the business class section of an airplane.
Wed 09 Feb 11 (11:23am)
I agree with you a nd I disagree with you. Children should be allowed in grocery stores and on buses, trains, taxis, and airplanes (provided that their parents pay for them. No one should get to ride for free and “lap sitting on planes is actually unsafe). However children should only be brought to weddings if they were invited by the bride and groom. If someone wants an adult only affiar for the most special day of their life than they should be allowed that. Don’t raise kids to think party crashing is ok. I also think parents should only take kids to family restaurants. Denny’s yes, expensive italian restaurants no. Why? because when adults are paying $30 per entree they are paying for more than the food they are paying for the relaxing experience that screaming dirupts. I don’t think non-parents are harsh. I think SOME parents are just overly entitled. Parenting is a sacrifice. Part of that sacrifice is having to pay for a baby sitter if you want o go to fancy restaurants and weddings.
I don’t think I’ve ever copped negative criticism from anyone for taking my son to cafe’s. We live in a small town, so our options for going out are limited, hence we are recgonised by the staff and owners when we go places and they always love to have a chat with my 2 year old and coo over our 3 month old. All are very sympathetic to the odd tantrum, but if we can’t get him to settle down, we take him outside to cool off. We’ve also got a special backpack for him that’s got a board book, a small art book and some crayons in it so that he has something to occupy him when we go out. I think that children need to learn to behave in public and they do that by going out in public, throwing a wobbly and being taught that it’s not acceptable. Yes, it takes time but it’s worth it in the end.
We haven’t been on a plane since our older son was about 8 months old, so it’s going to be interesting to see what he is like when we have to fly in a few months time.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (12:09pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (05:17pm)
The only cafe I’ve been to, where I wouldn’t bring kids , is a particular favourite high tea place I go to occasionally - it doubles as an antique/furniture store - lots of expensive breakables!
Most of the cafes I go to a pretty noisy with people chatting on a Sunday morning - you’d barely hear a child babbling in the background, if it was really that off-putting.
I don’t agree with the whole ‘kids shouldn’t be in cafes’ etc.. But come on, what the hell are children doing in business class on a flight?
Sun 06 Feb 11 (12:51pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (01:58pm)
um… flying somewhere…
we’re flying starclass to japan with your toddler because we want the extra space, same as the other people travelling in star class i would imagine.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:56pm)
Sonya - No sh!t sherlock. Of course they are ‘flying somewhere’. Would you take your toddler to a nightclub to ‘have a dance’? There are some places children do not belong. ‘business’ class is one of them
Sun 06 Feb 11 (04:47pm)
Mel, what you don’t get is that business class is for business people. It’s not an optional upgrade for cattle class to get more space. If you’re not an adult doing business, get the hell out of there. And your little dogs, too.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (06:00pm)
Not an optional upgrade for more space? I think you’ll find it is. Especially since most airlines are now getting rid of most of their first class since the GFC.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (06:02pm)
My kid is in business class because I can afford for us to all be in business class. If you don’t like it, you just have to suck it up, since our three tickets probably cost a whole lot more than your one ticket! I refuse to squeeze us into economy seats when I can afford not to!
Our daughter is nearly 4 and knows how to behave (for the most part), so people who get their knickers in a bunch at the mere sight of a small human are the ones who need an attitude adjustment!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (06:07pm)
Paul, nonsense business class is a name for a more upgraded seat, yes most people travelling for business use it but airlines don’t turn away those not travelling on business do they, if you can afford it you can fly it.
I don’t understand the “it is buisiness class, we paid more for a reason” responce because if parents have their kids in business class they too have paid more for a reason. There are a host of extra features in business class and not one of those advertised features has to do with picking and choosing who else flies in business class - it is a shallow excuse for intollerance. I think people need a reality check when it comes to kids being kids - it amazes me how many parents do not understand child development milestones very well, let alone all those people with limited experience of children. I have no patience for someone so lacking in perspective and so overwhelmingly selfish that they think they have a right to segregate children from the community they live in to such a degree. Want to live in a community where nobody ever bothers you? Become a hermit!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (12:55pm)
It’s not the fact that kids do what kid’s do..... It’s the fact that parents think it’s kinda cute to see their kid running up an down supermarket isles whilst people are trying to manoeuvre a full trolley. I had one kid kicking a ball in a department store. I nearly fell over it whilst loaded with goods and I couldn’t see the floor .... when I kicked the ball out of the way so I wouldn’t trip over it and break my neck ..... you would have thought I’d committed some kind of sin! The parents’ reaction was very aggressive. Keep your kids under control… We all don’t think your kids are cute!!!!!!! It’s called MANNERS.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (01:18pm)
I think business class travellers - who often pay four or more times as much for a ticket - have a right to some peace and quiet on the flight.
You might say the child paid for his ticket too, but they never pay full adult fare, so that doesn’t stack up to me. (this also goes for kids running around airport club lounges as guests of their parents)
I also support the concept of a separate area for families at the rear of the plane, with a decent sound wall between it and the rest of the travellers. Or childfree flights. If airlines offered them, people would flock to them. There’s nothing worse than seeing some bogan family coming towards you at Gold Coast airport, lugging paraphernalia from Sea World or Movie World. You know you are in for a bumpy ride home and the captain won’t do a thing to help it.
Children do need to learn to behave in public. They need to do this at home. Parents subject their precious darlings on others before they’ve even learnt to behave properly in the privacy of their own home. I do not remember going to a restaurant at all until I was seven, and that was the local pub for a counter meal. The first real restaurant was the local chinese when I was 9, and I was lucky enough to get taken to a Mexican place at 12.
What parents of today don’t get is that kids need to burn of their energy in their backyards, not in the local cafe or italian restaurant. Keep ‘em at home - the public will love them for it.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (01:21pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (04:00pm)
Wow you were a deprived child.
I was travelling internationally with my parents by the time I was two. I had been to many different countries including Africa, Europe and Hong Kong by the time I was 12.
My sister and I were always commended on being good travellers by the flight attendants since we would keep busy on the flight and hardly made a sound. It all depends on the kids and their behaviour.
These things have to be learned.
If you’re going to fly cattle class from the GC airport then be prepared to have a bogan family ride with you. But I feel more sorry for them having to put up with your eye-rolling and dribble.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (06:01pm)
I agree children need to learn how to behave in public, but we do not live in a childless society, they are a big part of our world! Some parents do not attempt to control their kids while out and it is annoying but I’d say thats been going on for many years not just by ‘parent’s of today’. Those kind of parents will always exsist but we should not segregate all children because of some bad parenting and we should not treat them like little animals locked away until they are trained appropriately, interacting with adults and learning what it means to have manners may make them better adults and lets face it there are many badly behaved, rude, ill mannered adults around.
I have no issue with seperate seating for families on flights, but I have as much right as the next person to travel business class with my family!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (07:56pm)
You don’t have kids do you! Actually children are charged as full fares as soon as they reach 2 years old. Prior to that, they are not charged but are expected to sit on a parents lap for the full flight as no seat is made available unless you are lucky to get a spare seat.
I am trying to teach my 4 year old and 2 year old manners. I agree that some parents do not. Why am I being looked down upon because I have children. I know some nasty adults. Does that mean I assume all adults are nasty?
Children model the behaviour they see around them. They need support and encouragement to become productive members of society and by basically telling parents that children are not welcome anywhere until they are teenagers, this is telling them that until you turn a certain age, you are insignificant.
It is no wonder so many kids do not respect the adults around them when the adults do not respect them.
Mon 07 Feb 11 (01:14pm)
I’ve always paid full fare for my child, since when do children get discounted fares? I pay the same price for my 2yr old to sit in a seat as I pay for me to sit in a seat. ....
Tue 08 Feb 11 (02:21pm)
Whingefest, it’s quite obvious that you’re not a parent.
Children over the age of 2 are required to pay full fare, not reduced 70% like it used to be… airlines now charge by the seat, so they do pay for their seat.
Perhaps you should also consider your argument:
“Children do need to learn to behave in public. They need to do this at home.”
Would you teach your child to swim in the bathtub, then throw them in the pool & say “go ahead”, no more instruction? That’s just stupid.
children need to travel- they need to learn to be quiet in the car, behave in a shop & do as they’re told in a cafe. You seem to me to be one of those people that judge the many by the few.
BTW- people don’t take their kids to a cafe to ‘burn off their energy”, they take them there to teach social niceties by example, or as a treat for good behaviour. As all good parents know- children learn better by watching than by being told.
I took my 2.5 year old to America with us on holiday recently- bus, train, taxi, boat & plane, I made sure he always had something to do & we never had a problem. Children aren’t as bad as you think they are.
Children have as much right as anybody else to fly, shop and be seen in public. I have 6 and will proudly take them anywhere. While having regard for other people is important, so is the right of the child.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (01:32pm)
Mon 07 Feb 11 (07:14am)
Here here, my thoughts exactly.
I have have two young boys and take them everywhere, however I have experienced some looks down long noses and some push back from Joe Public. I get it mostly in shopping environs, yes my 5yr is rolling around on the lounge chair, he’s having fun on an otherwise boring trip to a shoe shop for me. Hardly worthy of a snide comment between elderly conservative members of the community especially when said in such a way that I can hear. This type of thing has happened to me on a few occasions and I may or may not have leaned over to said busybodies and said quietly but firmly “expletive off”, coming from a presentable 40yr father takes some by surprise Lol! This is not the proper way to behave and I am in no way promoting my behavior but sometimes I need to clear my soul of angst, and it feels bloody good!
Alison, its not that kids aren’t welcome in these places, its that kids arent well behaved in these places, which makes them unwelcome. Would we tolerate and adult running around screaming at hte top of their lungs and kicking adults in the shins? No! And kids misbehave because they find cafes boring! Same with any place they are made to sit still for hours and do adult things (chatting over coffee is not a kids idea of fun!). Where are kids welcome? Playgrounds, parks, movies, schools, daycare. Notice these are all activites kids enjoy? Supermarkets are boring to kids and they will misbehave unless you teach them to help (give them something to do to make it “fun"). Let’s face it, its pretty simple. You can’t avoid taking them on planes/taxis/buses for transport, but if you teach them how to sit still and make it “fun” (either take activities, play eye spy, look at things out the window, whatever!) and people won’t mind at all. Yes its true, people like OTHER peoples kids to be seen and not heard!! Sorry but that is the hard facts whether you like it or not. Just because you love your kids doesn’t mean strangers do too!!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:00pm)
The level of child management skill by some of todays parents should make them hang their head in shame. Children on flights are a definate no no. In Business class is a never never. When travelling Business Class I am usually using the time to relax and prepare for hectic complicated business affairs that ensure the continued employment for a large number of staff. Instead of just giving kids a thrill in Business Class shove them back to coach where they can yell scream run and poop to their hearts content. We dont just pay for the luxury we pay for the facilities ie. onboard faxing, phone calls and some flights internet connections and for the peace and quiet to wind down on the return trip.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:05pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:37pm)
Could you let me know when and where you are flying next? I have a 2 year old and and 8 month old, and I plan to sit next to you, and make sure that both kids are cranky
I mean, isn’t that what everyone else is doing to you?? Planning to fly with kids, just to annoy you?
If I pay for an upgrade, then that is where we will be sitting. You may go and sit back in coach though, it’s ok, we don’t mind:)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:15pm)
....and me with my three kids will sit on the other side of u.
You should be the one hanging your head with shame at the moment...your comment makes you sound like nothing more than a self indulgent, intolerable, lonely ”single” Get a life
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:27pm)
Oh please, stain. I take my children (7 & 9) in business class all the time. They have just as much right to be there as you- in fact probably more because my family is paying for themselves not whereas your company is paying for you.
When they are there I expect them to behave as I would expect them to anywhere on a plane. They are expected to read, watch movies to their hearts content, sleep and eat properly. They can talk quietly if they need to, but usually they just watch movies. They can’t get up and walk around, run, make noise or anything else that would impact other passengers. In other words I expect them to behave the same way EVERYONE should behave on a flight.
However, we are regularly disturbed by people making calls, sitting with colleagues and talking loudly about meetings etc, couples getting drunk because they are so thrilled to be flying business.
We too are paying for the amenities. The extra space, the lack of toilet queues and of course the flat beds. We fly back and forth UK-AU a lot and I want my children to sleep on the flight.
So, I don’t think people who are only there because their companies are paying for it should be getting upitty with families who can afford to make the decision that their children need extra space on a flight.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:28pm)
Children on flights are a no-no? When you live in the world’s most isolated capital city (it’s Perth or Honolulu, depending on who you talk to) just how you propose I visit my brother in Sydney? A 3 day car drive across the Nullabor when I only have 5 days leave?
At the start of a flight I will briefly chat to those sitting around me and explain I have children with me, and invite them to inform me of any problems they have during the flight as they arise, so I can address them. While getting food into my son I may not notice that my daughter is kicking the seat in front...tell me and I’ll happily put a stop to it. I also have no issue with putting families in a separate section. I’ll happily hold someone’s toddler while they pop to the loo if I can expect reciprocation.
If I had more money than sense I would pay the extra and fly Business. With my kids. But I would request we be seated at the front or back of Business to minimise any disruption, not smack bang in the middle.
In all honesty, I can put up with anything I see kids do if I see a parent doing their best to sort the situation. It’s kids who run amok with no attempt to teach, guide or discipline coming from the parent/s that irks me.
Business class is for business people. Children have no business being there.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:23pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (04:02pm)
First Class for First People? I’m sorry but that doesn’t make any sense. And neither does your reasoning.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (07:50pm)
Rubbish. Business class is for people who can afford it.
And to put not too fine a point on things, how many of the business people in business class are actually ponying up for their own airfares instead of the company they work for?
I disagree and agree with the concept - it depends on the circumstance. For example, if I go to see ‘Tanged’ during the day? No, I’m not going to whinge about kids laughing and crying loudly during the movie.
But if I go to see Black Swan at 9 pm, and there ‘s a kid crying loudly - yeah, that’s not cool. (God, that was annoying!)
It’s not that I think that kids should be seperated from adults, just that there’s a time and a place - people just need to use common sense.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:24pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:45pm)
Agreed. We usually go to the late session (9pm) for movies to ensure there won’t be any kids or crying babies. Still, it doesn’t seem to matter to some parents that they are taking their kid to an M rated movie at 9pm (surely this is past their bedtime?!). Alison I think this is the situations where people get annoyed. If I went to see a movie during the day or on the weekend (and especially school holidays) then I can’t complain about kids being there. I probably can complain if they are extremely misbehaved and disruptive though. I’ve been to sessions where they have kicked families out because their kids were so unruly.
You can’t ‘ban’ kids as much as you can’t ban anyone else. I agree that kids shouldn’t be in business class and common sense of the parents should prevail in this instance. Kids can be unpredicatable on flights, I know mine are. Sometimes good as gold other times a nightmare - they’re kids - that’s what they do. I wouldn’t book business class seats for them out of respect for other people who have booked and paid dearly for them. I do however take my kids to restaurants and cafes as this is the only way they learn how to behave in this intance and they are always good and sit and eat their food. When they get bored we have the iPad for them with TV programs that they sit and watch (quietly) while we finish. You can’t put your whole life on hold and never leave the house because you have children. That would be a crap life for you and they would learn absolutely nothing about public behaviour.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (02:38pm)
This is appalling We are talking about children here, not rats or cockroaches. If I want to pay for my kids to travel in business then I will and i regularly do. It’s my choice and It is a choice that is made available to me by the airlines.
I flew home last week from LA with three young kids in business class and sure, there were a couple of instances where they played up momentarily, but they were no where near as annoying as the guy across the aisle from me who listened to metallica on his iPod for 14 hours so loudly that I could clearly hear every song, or the woman behind us that snored so heavily that it sounded like a freight train was driving alongside the cabin!
To all of you stuck up, intolerable people up there, remember that you too were once children and judging by your comments today - you’re all probably more obnoxious now that you ever where as kids!!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:08pm)
Mon 07 Feb 11 (10:34am)
“You werea child once” - didn’t take long for the clichés to come out, did it?
Yes I was a child and my parents took me to places for which I had learned the appropriate behaviour and manners. That doesn’t happen often now.
Before going to a restaurant our parents were confident we had learned proper table manners at home first. This meant things like using utensils properly, staying at the table for the duration of the occasion, using inside voices in other words, not throwing food,not running around and not yelling etc
If you want to take a child on a long flight then for everyone else’s sake make sure you child can sit still for long hours at a time, not kicking the seat back in front, can hang on for a bit when all the loos are busy and not disturb others around you. You may have paid for their ticket but the tickets paid for by all the other passengers your kid is annoying far outweigh that. the rights or your child to create havoc don’t supersede the rest of us having the right t expect good behaviour.
Business Class should be an 18+ service. If your paying that much money you are payig to relax - who can relax with the mother at the back trying to fix an unreasonabl.e 2 yr old??
Fights I think should be between 8 - 8 its a family flight time. Adults can go on however the flight wil be catered for people under 15
This flight should only have kid themes. Movies, games, music, tota girl as the manual. The food should be just for kids. The kids can run around with each other and no one has to worry about upsetting anyone
8-8 iis adults flight time. No kids allowed
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:16pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (06:04pm)
Bit tricky when you have to fly round the world like my family regularly do. Would we just wait somewhere until it ticked over to 8 o clock there so we could make our next connection?
Mon 07 Feb 11 (01:09am)
Yes, you would. As would I. What do you do when you have 13 hour stop overs or your flight is delayed???
Mon 07 Feb 11 (09:35pm)
What 13 hour stopovers? If you can afford business you can afford a better itinerary than that. We go twice a year minimum to the UK and I’ve never had more than two hours delay. You are hardly realistic if you think people that are going to change planes two or three times and fly through a zillion timezones are going to be able to work all that out. Where does the 8 oclock thing get measured from btw, because if you switch time zones and go more than 13 hours that is nigh on impossible.
Realistic, I wonder whether you’ve actually ever been anywhere longer than short haul, because noone who had actually done any proper air travel would suggest anything so ridiculous.
It’s more the parents not controlling their children while out in public ie letting them run wild in shops etc & not stopping them when they’re bugging everyone else. This is the reason I have booked a kid-free hotel for my next overseas trip. So looking forward to actually relaxing without having kids screaming & tripping me over while the parents ignore their offspring!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:24pm)
Mon 07 Feb 11 (02:29am)
This. I’ve read variations on “but they’re childrennnn, you mean, hating, child-haters full of hate!1!!11!!!” a million times. It’s a strawman. I don’t hate children. I don’t expect children not to share public spaces, nor do I expect them to be perfect or act like adults. I do expect their parents to at least attempt to calm them down/keep them quiet/discipline them. A screaming baby on an aeroplane, while trying, is no-one’s fault, least of all the baby’s, so I suck it up. But so many parents seem to think that not letting their older kids kick the back of someone’s seat or run around a cafe endangering waitstaff with hot drinks will damage little precious’s self esteem and don’t tell them to knock it off, and this is where the problem lies.
Have we also forgotten that we were all children once ourselves? Had we been banned from society how would have we learned to get along in life? I have 2 kids, who most of the time are reasonably well behaved, but like any toddler, they have their bad day. I guess none of you have ever had a bad day and spoken out of place to someone in your world? I agree that kids shouldn’t be flying in business class and I agree that there are times and places that kids really don’t belong, but there is no way that I am going to take my kids out of society, and hibernate myself, just to make life a little more pleasant for those you who would prefer they weren’t around. These kids are going to be running our nation one day and they deserve to be treated with decency and respect just as much as adults. If we don’t, how do you think we’ll be looked after when they are in the drivers seat?!
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:25pm)
Mon 07 Feb 11 (10:41am)
Ban from society? What a way to make an extreme exaggeration.
How about introduce to society, step-by-step as the child learns appropriate behaviour and manners.
Before you say, how can they learn “what’s appropriate without experiencing it” ... do as our parents did; teach at home, then expand to bigger family groups activities, family friend activities and so on so that learned behaviours like inside voice and good manners, understanding the word ‘No’ are second nature to the child.
Stop treating a child as your friend, be a role model and and parent who sets boundaries and is not afraid to say no to a child or to address bad behaviour
its an interesting issue.
I dont think there should be a blanket ban, but at the same time i dont think unruly chicldren should be alloed on planes, at the least. But how to police this?
A womans eardrums exploded on a plane a year ago after the kid in front of her let out an earth shattering scream. Well, eardrum shattering i should say. Blood gushed from her ears and she is now mostly deaf.
I love kids, but I dont think innocent people should be subjected to the whims and misbehaviour of a kid like that.
But again - how to police it?
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:39pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (07:13pm)
Kick unruly kids off flights, along with their parents, before the flight departs. It happens in the US. however a bit more difficult if the kids starts acting up mid air!
As a happily childless woman all I have to say is that yes, children have a right to go to these places just like anyone else. However although you may be a responsible parent, there are so many out there who are not. I don’t mind a small child having a tantrum or getting in the way, because as you said, kids are just learning.
However when a mother thinks it’s funny that her small child stamps on my feet, climbs on my car, screams constantly four hours on end then sorry, I’m not impressed.
Sadly as usual it is one bad apple spoils the lot. In general I don’t want to share any space with children because there is always that 50 / 50 chance that the kids you will be stuck with will be complete and utter horrors and their parents will be irresponsible morons.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:43pm)
its an interesting issue.
I dont think there should be a blanket ban, but at the same time i dont think unruly chicldren should be alloed on planes, at the least. But how to police this?
A womans eardrums exploded on a plane a year ago after the kid in front of her let out an earth shattering scream. Well, eardrum shattering i should say. Blood gushed from her ears and she is now mostly deaf.
I love kids, but I dont think innocent people should be subjected to the whims and misbehaviour of a kid like that.
But again - how to police it?
Sun 06 Feb 11 (03:45pm)
Sun 06 Feb 11 (08:50pm)
Nicole, I’m calling “bullshit” on your little story.
A kid generally can’t reach the pitch and extended length of time it would take for making someone’s ears bleed.
I think you’ll find that, if your story is even true, it would have been a problem with the air pressure on the plane. She may have been sick with a slight cold or blocked sinuses, thus perforating her eardrums with the changing pressure.
Sun 06 Feb 11 (09:47pm)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7900185/Air-passenger-says-child-in-neighbouring-seat-burst-her-eardrums.html
There ya go, Em - took 2 seconds to find. Too hard for you?
Sun 06 Feb 11 (10:52pm)
This is the screaming child ruptured my eardrum story
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/latest/7611156/screaming-child-burst-my-eardrum/
Needless to say, she’s a bit dodgy.
-F-
Mon 07 Feb 11 (12:10am)
http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/screaming-child-lands-qantas-in-court-after-sending-woman-deaf/story-e6frfq80-1225894589406
True story actually. I tell you, I’d be filing charges against the parent, and not the airline.
I don’t have an opinion on whether kids should be in business class or not. It’s for sale, so if people buy it, they can have it. One thing that does make me envious though, when walking through the business class cabin on my way to economy, is seeing a small child with his/her own business class seat and absolutley swimming in the space… when adult-sized me has to cram like a sardine in economy! (And no, I couldn’t have paid for it myself because my work only pays for economy tickets). Do these kids even know and appreciate the luxury and space they’re about to receive!?
Sun 06 Feb 11 (04:00pm)