FBI Successful In Breaking Up Yet Another Of Its Own Plots To Bomb The US
from the what-an-amazing-track-record dept
We've discussed this a few times in the past, but the FBI's main counter-terrorism initiative these days appears to be centered around creating its own terrorist plots to thwart. First, they find clueless, easily manipulated people (frequently young and Muslim), who have no actual connections with terrorists. Then, they concoct entire terrorism plots, where every other person is an FBI agent, and any tools, "weapons" and money are supplied by the FBI. Finally, they "bust" the guy just before he carries out the plot that never would have happened anyway, because it's not like the FBI would supply the actual weapons. We see this pattern again and again -- and each time the press uncritically hypes up how the FBI successfully stopped a real "homegrown" terrorist.Of course, it's happened once again, and the basic plotlines are identical to ones in the past. And, of course, the press is describing it like it was an actual terrorist plot, pretending that people was actually at risk. Glenn Greenwald's summary of this and other cases is pretty spot on:
None of these cases entail the FBI's learning of an actual plot and then infiltrating it to stop it. They all involve the FBI's purposely seeking out Muslims (typically young and impressionable ones) whom they think harbor animosity toward the U.S. and who therefore can be induced to launch an attack despite having never taken even a single step toward doing so before the FBI targeted them. Each time the FBI announces it has disrupted its own plot, press coverage is predictably hysterical (new Homegrown Terrorist caught!), fear levels predictably rise, and new security measures are often implemented in response (the FBI's Terror plot aimed at the D.C. Metro, for instance, led to the Metro Police announcing a new policy of random searches of passengers' bags).Now, I'm sure some will argue that these efforts highlight those who may be pre-disposed to taking part in such activities if given the chance for real. But in the US, I thought we didn't believe in arresting people for crimes that they're pre-disposed to doing if they haven't actually done them. On top of that, with the FBI providing most of the actual plot here, it's difficult to see how this isn't a classical case of entrapment. Finally, it's not clear what good this really does. Putting people who had no real means of attacking the US in jail isn't likely to scare off anyone else.
It also makes you wonder if the FBI shouldn't be spending more time trying to stop actual plots that involve people who have the means to actually hurt people, rather than these plots which have exactly 0% chance of causing any harm.
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Homegrown
Sponsored by the Government Terrorist Foiling Organization (GTFO)
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Re: Homegrown
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Re:
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Not that I am suggesting that any particular conspiracy theory is right or commenting on the crackpot status of any particular people.
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The FBI didn't count on them being successful tho.
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At least this generates press, keeps the public in fear, and keeps sweet funding flowing. And they get to put potentially dangerous Muslims in jail - Americans won't complain about that.
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Re:
Except maybe the Muslim Americans who are being targeted by the FBI...
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What I've read...
That's at least a 'small' step towards actually doing something rather than Mike's description of being target simply because he was young and Muslim.
I agree the FBI and the press wildly inflate their successes, but there is a grain of truth here that shouldn't be dismissed me thinks.
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Re: What I've read...
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Re: What I've read...
I mean sure he didnt have a target, weapons, knowledge to make weapons, money to buy weapons, or any criminal contacts but he said he hated the government and wanted to kill all the bastards in power on the internet. So obviously he was a real threat.
Now if you excuse me I have to go fuck a gaggle of supermodels on a pile of money before i jump my lambo over the grand canyon
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Re: Re: What I've read...
Did I mention you also play 10 variations on the Inna-Gadda-Da-Vita drum solo? Because that's the part that pwns the most.
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Re: Re: Re: What I've read...
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Re: Re: What I've read...
Borderlands, anyone?
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Re: What I've read...
It's almost an axiom of modern policing that we're supposed to steer people away from crime. For a modern police force to deliberately steer vulnerable kids towards a life of crime... I have no words for how much this disgusts me.
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Re: What I've read...
Those are actually constitutionally-protected activities.
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Re: Re: What I've read...
Those are actually constitutionally-protected activities.
Maybe, it depends what exactly he said. It's possible he could run afoul of the Smith Act, which prohibits advocating the overthrow of the US government by force or violence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act
Though it hasn't been repealed or fully overturned, it also hasn't been used in decades.
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It's easier to fish in a bucket than the ocean...
Since it's easier to fish in a bucket (especially one they create), I'm not surprised that they continue this charade.
There is probably a money trail (that we can't see) as well leading from some of the larger 'non-military' enforcement agencies back to the FBI as long as they keep ratcheting up the perceived need for security at home(ie. military contractors that we pay to do most of the 'real' military work these days).
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Re: It's easier to fish in a bucket than the ocean...
It's called terrorist farming. If you can't catch terrorists in the while, farm your own.
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Re: Re: It's easier to fish in a bucket than the ocean...
If you can't catch wild terrorists.
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Re: Re: Re: It's easier to fish in a bucket than the ocean...
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Re: "stupid braun ad" -- Get Noscript and use "hosts" file.
4 times while trying to read this story that stupid braun add popped up and took over my screen. 4 times mike, not cool.
I don't see a single ad nor even image here. Had to host out the latter after annoying image of some conference. Add them as Mike clutters up the site, as I did with bandcamp.com. -- Result is just text, and better arranged, like it.
Mike doesn't object to this. Can't, logically. If everyone did this, cut off the 12 parasites that run javascript here and images too, I'm sure he'd fund the site out of good will.
Way the net inevitably goes IS as Mike says: "free" content. It's entirely up to Mike to "monetize" the content. While the advertising income holds up, he's an "entrepreneur": when users demand content in their own way -- ad free -- he becomes a "dinosaur". See how that works? Mike is just enjoying the same old advertising supported system while the bubble lasts, but if ads here begin to annoy regulars, it's collapsing.
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Re: Re: "stupid braun ad" -- Get Noscript and use "hosts" file.
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Re: Re: Re: "stupid braun ad" -- Get Noscript and use "hosts" file.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: "stupid braun ad" -- Get Noscript and use "hosts" file.
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I agree. Not cool. The ad definitely should not do that. Yes, it does expand, but it should only expand if you directly move your mouse over it and then there's a countdown to give you a chance to move the mouse away if you don't want the expand. I'll talk to our ad partners about this. It shouldn't behave the way you describe...
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This is one of the very few sites I have whitelisted for adblock and noscript.
Funny thing is my current razor's battery is all but dead and I actually looked at those at the store the other day, I need to go find a couple of actual reviews.
(PS, it's "Problem Between Chair And Keyboard")
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problem exists between...
try saying pbcak, now try pebcak see how that rolls off the tongue
no reason to have an acronym to insult the computer illiterate right in front of them if you can't actually say it
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+1. Mike has been very careful in the past...he is one of the few that have done so. I hate 99% of the websites out there because they allow their advertisers to pop-up, pop-under, and play ridiculous noises ("You've won!") I have whitelisted this site for adblock/noscript/noflash, because most of the ads here are stuff that I might use and I have yet to see any stupidity here that I've seen elsewhere.
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I can trust Mike 150%, but that's no comfort when some of his ad partners might screw up and let a malicious ad through.
Each script you allow is a potential attack surface.
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Ok. Talking it over with our ad partner, and looking to see if we can replicate and also ways to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen accidentally.
Can you say what browser you're using? That might be helpful as well.
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hasnt happened again since i complained, just the 4 pop ups on this story and it popped up once before that on the main page
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In a few years I would have all the skills needed to blow stuff up and do it in such a way that no FBI dude would ever know I was going to do it. In fact I would keep my hate of Americans secret and pretend to be an american loving, red meat eating local boy.
Sting operations like this only show people how to dodge the FBI. That and watching Burn Notice.
Please note: I am not trying to blow anything up!!
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Re:
QUICK, SOMEONE CALL THE F.B.I
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Does this mean they are just going to ask Mike to remove the post and delete all of the evidence without turning it over to anyone?
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The main thing terrorists want is the US spending time on taking away American freedoms and showing the hypocrisy of the American government.
It worked perfectly.
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After everyone in the organization nearly killing each other, they find out it was entirely composed of CIA, FBI, IRS agents that had infiltrated it.
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Disgraceful
Justice will be served. Maybe not now, but it will be dispensed and those, be they Muslim or not, we rue the day they were unjust.
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Re: Disgraceful
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Re:
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They might want to rethink their PR.
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Of course they wouldn't do that. They would not want to step on ATF's turf.
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Re:
As for entrapment, I wonder if the FBI is bored of waiting for actual plots (of which either there are such scarce few, or the government is NOT taking credit for keeping us alive by hiding hundreds of them) that they decide to make up some to stop. If they got time to do this, maybe we're NOT in constant danger of being blown up by the guys who "hate us for our freedoms."
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Re:
I think we should demand a new agency with sweeping security powers to protect us from the agencies that continually endanger and sometimes even hurt and kill US citzens with their operations.
As I have read before on this very site by an AC, "If it saves even one life..."
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Mike has become a LOLcat
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Re: Mike has become a LOLcat
It's the TD theme of the day!
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The Office of the Director of the FBI
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Exploiting the mentally ill
Once identified, that person should have been simply watched and perhaps even taken in for using hate speech. At the very least, examined by mental health professional that might have been able to help him rather than encourage him to more violent action...
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You are confused
We have busted people with drugs for years and charging them with the intent to distribute even though they weren't actually caught distributing. This country is a police state now and there doesn't appear to be any way of going back. All the government has to do is scare the sheeple and they roll over and let the government have its way with them.
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Re: You are confused
Sweet. I sometimes pity the Americans.
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This current mindset in the courts, whether it's terrorism or predation, ought to scare the hell out of everyone.
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Hmmm...
They manufacture a terrorist threat, which they use to justify giving them consent to a whole lot of unconstitutional things.
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Not really, the only real people trying to hurt us are now mostly dead since we've spent the last 10 years killing everyone that challenged us on their own turf, and the other element is lone nutjobs with their half-baked plots that get thwarted by normal citizens using common sense.
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The real term for it is 'Domestic Terrorism', and it's most often done by highly political people (they don't have to be a politician, just a radical in their political beliefs). Domestic terrorists most often go after people/groups they view as part of their political opposition who they view as destroying America and/or causing great evil.
For example, remember that guy who shot an abortion doctor in a church? That's domestic terrorism, using fear and murder to try to scare other Americans out of doing/getting abortions.
Then there was the guy who shot that congress woman Gabriele Giffords.
There was also a gunman who tried to shot up some economic group in California (I forget it's name) because the shooter listened to Glenn Beck constantly rail about how evil the group was and how they wanted to bring communism to America (they didn't, they were just a liberal economic thinktank group).
Domestic Terrorists tend to pop up when a group feels totally shut out of power, which often occurs when one party controls both houses of congress and the white house. It happens with supporters of both political parties. Though I only named conservative domestic terrorists from the last few years (since they're recent) there's been a bunch of liberal ones over the decades to, the most famous ones being anti-war people in the Vietnam era.
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Re:
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Well....
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prove it
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Re: prove it
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Re: prove it
Are you reading the post? There are both links and sources.
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Re: prove it
Though some of us think that there are more credible threats the FBI should probably be looking into rather than staging and busting there own attacks. Not to mention a better way to handle the individual, either by helping him or monitoring him until he becomes a real threat. This is dancing a fine line with entrapment, would this guy have ever had access to the explosives the FBI was "going to" provide him? Would he have ever found people to back him? Would have have ever even tried to find a backer and supplier if the FBI hadn't approached him? How much did the FBI encourage him to do this? Did he have doubts they talked him out of? Did they convince him this would be a good thing to do? Personally I think these questions should be looked into which is why I am upset that the press is uniformly calling this a win for law enforcement.
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It's not the first time, nor the last
That enabled Bulger to avoid arrest for over 20 years. It took a private citizen to get him caught. The FBI claimed they didn't know where he was.
The point is that the FBI likes to create cases they can 'solve' easily without a whole heck of a lot of work or money.
"Homegrown terrorists" fit the bill. Helping them create a case to prosecute is even more fun.
It sure looks like they don't have enough to do. Perhaps we should look into their funding next time their budget comes up for review.
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Patsies and homgrown terrorism
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Not the first time
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Re: Not the first time
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John P O'Neil
Shortly before 911 He left the FBI through frustration at His requests to take Osama down being scotched from above.
He then gets a job in the twin towers and dies on his 1st day due to a plane hitting them.
He was the one FBI Guy that could have told the story of how those above wanted Osama to start the war of civilisations and would practically let Him go free until that fateful day in 2001.
They got their wars and diverted attention away from the coming financial disaster.
Now those terrorism laws can be used to stop protest and GOD help anyone who thinks that their own government wants to keep them safe... they'll kill You as soon as look at You.
Wake up people time is short....
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If you ever find youself alone with a federal drug attorney they'll be able to tell you dozens of stories just like this one. They don't necessarily want the law changed though because everyone the DEA busts brings in $50K for the lawyers.
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John P O'Neil
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A question
HOW much would it cost him to set this up on his own?
WHAT would it TAKE to setup and plan? WITHOUT help from the FBI!
There are so many regulations and controls setup on ANYTHING that could be used to EXPLODE, its getting hard to even find rocket motors for sci class..
Next thing you know, they will regulate Vinegar and Soda, Because it can put an eye out.
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Sad
I guess some people just like to be submissive.
Seriously people? What the hell are you waiting for? You want them to get the right to shoot you if you're acting in a strange way? Because that's what will happen if you let your government take away your rights any longer! Act now!
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Re: Sad
I guess some people just like to be submissive.
You're right! I'll make the FBI stop doing this right away. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Homegrown terrorists are killing Americans.
I know, bad joke but that's the first thing that came to mind..
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