Neverwinter Saga

Transcription

>>Female Presenter: It's a pleasure to welcome all of you to Google New York. We have today Gail Simmons in conversation with Frank Bruni. As many of you Gail Simmons is perhaps best known for her role as a judge on Bravo's Top Chef, an Emmy Award winning show. As well as her hosting role on Bravo's Top Chef Just Desserts and she is today releasing her new memoir called Talking with My Mouth Full, which chronicles her role, her evolution from amateur eater to a professional eater. A role I think many of us envy here at Google. We are lucky enough to have her in conversation today with the legendary critic of the New York Times, Frank Bruni. Please welcome Gail Simmons and Frank Bruni. [Applause] >>Gail Simmons: Hi Frank. >>Frank Bruni: Hi Gail, how are you? >>Gail Simmons: I'm good, thanks for coming today. >>Frank Bruni: I'm honored to do it. If you guys have not picked up a copy of Gail's book, I recommend it. You, if I can begin with a compliment- >>Gail Simmons: Sure >>Frank Bruni: -I read a lot of memoirs- >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: -and I think one of the hardest things is to write in, with a sort of conversational allure of the way you speak. And I saw you in the book and it's a delightful breezy read and- >>Gail Simmons: Thank you. >>Frank Bruni: -we'll talk a little about that now. >>Gail Simmons: Yeah, thank you. >>Frank Bruni: Since we're here on the day of the book's publication, what made you decide to write the book? >>Gail Simmons: You know it's a funny thing, and actually Frank has written his own memoir too, so I'm sure you will understand the angst involved? When I set out to write a book, I wanted to write a book, I wanted to tell my story and my first instinct in doing that was to write a cookbook because in the food universe, or in the food landscape, that's sort of what everyone goes to first. But when I started thinking more about it, I thought the story I wanted to tell, I couldn't really do that way. There are so many questions that always come up. First of all I don't cook on television, I eat on television and so the questions I get I think are slightly different than most people who are chefs on television or who are cooking for a living as opposed to eating, publicly. Which sounds crass but that's what I do. So I started sort of thinking, well there's about 20 to 25 questions that I always get. From people on the street, from strangers, from my family and from my friends, from journalists and I started answering them. Sort of writing them down and answering them over a series of a few months and realized that the best way to answer them, for the public, was to tell the story of how I got here in the first place. So that's what I decided to do. >>Frank Bruni: Now you just said people know you as a public eater- >>Gail Simmons: mmm hmm >>Frank Bruni: - not as a cook. But one of the things that, I knew this about you, but I was reacquainted with it when I read the book; you have serious cooking chops. You have education. Tell people a little about- >>Gail Simmons: I do. >>Frank Bruni ñ the path before you ended up at Food &Wine Magazine. >>Gail Simmons: Well, you know and it's interesting because as much as I eat on television, also one of the questions I get so often is really like, what do you know? Like how made you- you just woke up one day and decide to eat and be mean to people? >>Frank Bruni: Right. >>Gail Simmons: For a living? [Audience laughs] >>Gail Simmons: Which is not true. I'm actually relatively nice most of the time- >>Frank Bruni: And you'd already been mean to people before. >>Gail Simmons: Right. Yes, exactly- >>Frank Bruni: Yeah, so you- >>Gail Simmons: Exactly, I've been mean to people for years. But I do, I used to cook. I was a cook. I would not ever call myself a chef. I did not lead a kitchen, but I cooked in kitchens and I went to culinary school. I was in college trying to figure out what we're all trying to figure out when we graduate from college and feel kind of hopelessly lost and disappointed in myself that I couldn't get up the strength and energy to write my LSAT's and be a layer like my family wanted me to. But realized that I really loved to write and I really loved to cook and so I got a job in journalism. I was living in Canada, I grew up in Toronto and I got a job as an intern at a magazine, at the city magazine of Toronto called Toronto Life. It's actually a award winning publication, great writing. You know somewhat of a New York magazine. But it's a monthly and I was an intern there and that's when I realized, wow people write restaurant reviews for a living and write about food and there's so much going on in the city, the energy that I had never known before, when I was young. And I realized that food was sort of the beat that I wanted to cover. But I was 22 years old and there was stiff competition for those very coveted jobs. So I went to my editor and sort of asked you know how do I do this? I want to be a food writer. Food writer, big dream. And he said you know, that's all well and nice Gail but any writer, no matter what you want to cover, you need to be the owner of that craft, you need to be an authority, an expert, or else what makes you different than the other you know, thousands of people who want to be a food writer as well? Now, at the time the Food Network was very new, I just got an email address that same year, so now I'm dating myself but you can imagine, like that's where we were, imagine where we were in the world of technology? Yes, there was Google, in its infancy I guess and I had just got an email address, there were no blog, no one knew what blogs were. There just wasnít the proliferation of writing and media around food. So there were very few jobs available. And he really suggested, if you want to write about food you need to learn how to cook. You need to learn about food. There's kind of no way to do it, you need to be an authority. So I packed up my bags and left Canada and I moved here and went to culinary school. And I then, from there went to work in kitchens, because I thought when I graduated culinary school that I would just snap my fingers and get a job at Gourmet Magazine and be a food writer and the world would be perfect. But my career counselor at culinary school brought it to my attention that just because you've done everything once, doesn't make you a chef, doesnít make you an expert. Same as you know, you graduate medical school, I donít want you performing open heart surgery on me. It's kind of dramatic but you know, you still arenít, you don't know it enough. So he convinced me to go work on the line. So I cooked here, in New York, for a little while. At two very extraordinary, high quality restaurants where I got my butt handed to me. >>Frank Bruni: Very different restaurants- >>Gail Simmons: Very different restaurants- >>Frank Bruni: -from each other. >>Gail Simmons: Right, one was sort of very classic four star, it was at the time four star you know Le Cirque, which in its day, in its heyday at sort of the end of the 90s was really the kind of power dining restaurant in New York. And it was an extraordinary place to cook because it had an open kitchen. So I could stand on the line every night and watch really like the leaders of industry and of the country and movie stars and you know, all these extraordinary people eat the food that I would make them. Which, you know I was 23 now, was really an amazing kind of moment to be cooking in New York. There was, you know money was flowing like water. Remember those days? So and then from there I went to work at Vong, which is no longer open sadly, but John-Georges Vongerichten's Thai fusion restaurant, which at the time was ground breaking. It really was one of the first restaurants in the country that really highlighted Southeast Asian cooking. With, you know, very classic technique and it was an amazing place too because of the ingredients I got to use. I had otherwise never seen before. And from there I went back to writing, because I knew all the time when I was cooking that I didnít want to be a chef. I needed to just learn how to just speak the language. >>Frank Bruni: We'll come back to your Jeffrey Steingarten experience. >>Gail: Yes. Yes. >>Frank: But before we go there- >>Gail: Yeah. >>Frank: - you say in the book, a big conversation ongoing in the culinary world all the time is why there aren't more female chefs. And in the book, you say you got a little bit of an insight into that ñ >>Gail: Yes. >>Frank: -from your time in those kitchens. Talk about that. >>Gail: You know, it's a just interesting and delicate conversation because, obviously people get very upset and rightfully so, at last check, and I donít want to be quoted on this position, and maybe I shouldn't say this, because this is being recorded. But you know, there is no denying, it is a fact, it is a scientific fact, it is a mathematical equation that there are less women in kitchens, cooking in professional kitchens, than men. I'm not being sexist by saying that, it's known. And so people are always asking why why why, is it that women aren't as good cooks as men, are women not as strong and as you know, able as men? You know we get that on Top Chef all the time. Why haven't more women won Top Chef than men? And the answer I think is a lot simpler than people want to make it. And I am simplifying things; I understand it's a massive topic and a huge conversation. What I found working in restaurants is really, it's biological and in a lot of ways, over simplifying it it's the same reason that there are a lot less women who are plumbers than men. That's not to say that women wouldn't make great plumbers but itís a very physically demanding job. And it's demanding in ways- >>Frank: In crude ways. >>Gail: In crude ways. I mean it's really, it's physical manual labor. Until you are the chef, meaning the head of a kitchen you know, the word chef really means boss, so until you are the boss you are a line cook, you are a cook. And you are really executing someone else's vision and you are doing manual labor. You know, you're not really using your own creative skills; you are executing something for someone else's menu that needs to be exactly the same hundred times a day, every single day of the year, 7 days a week. And so it's very physically demanding, you're on your feet in front of fire using knives. Women can do all that stuff, there's no question, I think actually a kitchen really is a meritocracy in terms of skill and ability. What I think comes into play when you think about women at high levels in kitchens is that lets say it takes 10 years to be a chef, to really become the head of a kitchen. You know, by the time you go through culinary school and work your way up the line as you need to do to really become a professional chef at that high level. So let's say you started around 20-22, biologically until we as women can figure out a way to have men nurse and carry, physically inside, our babies, you know when you- After 10 years of working in a kitchen it's very hard, it's very hard to have to be a mother and work evenings weekends and holidays as chefs need to do cause that's when the kitchen is open. You know, the shop is open you have to be there. That's not to say that women don't do it, but much less women are able to sustain it than men. It doesnít mean we're not bad ass and it doesnít mean we're not hardcore and awesome and strong and there's some amazing female chefs. But if you kinda look at New York, and obviously New York is the toughest restaurant town, we all know. Frank knows better than anyone. And the restaurant world, which makes me sad but if you can think of five, I ask this in the book and it's always a test and I'd love someone to prove me wrong. Name five women who run New York City kitchens, who run more than two New York City kitchens. It's almost impossible. I can tell you 12 men in New York who run 5 or more kitchens all over the world. And I don't think that's because men aren't- women aren't as good as that. I think it's just because it's physically very difficult for women to be in 5 places and still have the responsibilities that we still have at home. >>Frank: You- How many people here know who Jeffrey Steingarten is? Most people? Ok, so good. How many of you knew that Gail worked for him for a couple years? >>Gail: And did [unintelligible]. >>Frank: Wow, they're pretty good. >>Gail: There we go, yeah. >>Frank: You guys are good Gail-ologists. >>Gail: Thank you. Yes, that's a major- >>Frank: What you don't know until you read the book is what the experience of working with him is like. So let's first talk about his chocolate and diet Coke habit. >>Gail: Oh yes. You know, it's funny I really wrote this as a love letter to him. It really remains to be seen if he will- >>Frank: Love letter? >>Gail: - take it that way. You know, working for Jeffrey was the greatest education I could have ever asked for. Yes, culinary school taught me how to cook but Jeffrey taught me how to read, how to do research. And there's no question I think, it's no secret that you know, he has a lot of eccentricities that- >>Frank: Talk about your interview for the job. >>Gail: Yes and he has a diet Coke and chocolate habit. Which you know, the chocolate part I'm all for, diet Coke is a personal preference. But he ñ the interview process kind of says it all and rightfully so. Everyone wants to think that he is sort of this mad scientist, which he is in a lot of ways. But after working for him for a long time I came to realize it's much more calculated than that. You know, he's the food critic for Vogue and he has this long line of women who have been his assistants over the years. We all last about 2 years, some a little more a little less depending. And I came to him because I'd never read Vogue in my life, until I went to work for Jeffrey. It's you know, the greatest fashion publication ever in the world. But I was never a very fashionable person. Especially until my early 20s I couldnít have told ya the name of a designer label if I tried. But when I was at culinary school and cooking on the line, someone gave me his book to read "The Man Who Ate Everything" which you should add to your reading lists, if you haven't already read it. I think it's one the greatest food, pieces of food writing ever. And I decided this is the man I want to work for. In it he talks about his assistant how one day she's searching for a very rare ingredient in Chinatown and the next day she's testing recipes and the next day she's doing research for him and interviewing the greatest chefs in the world. And I thought this is my job. I want to be a food writer and this is the job I need. So I went to my culinary school after I'd been cooking on the line and said, do you guys know this man? I didn't know if anyone knew him. I didn't know he was acclaimed as he was. And they said, yes, actually we do know him and we happen to know he's looking for an assistant. So serendipity definitely played a role. So they got me an interview with him and I showed up at his house after cooking one night. I was cooking the lunch shift at Vong, so I finished every day around 6 o'clock and I went to his house and he kept me there for about 3 hours. It was the most grueling; I mean really, people should be studying his methods. It was the most grueling interview I'd ever done, will ever do I think in my life. He made me taste wine and give him my tasting notes. He made me translate off the cuff Spanish and French. Because you know everyone puts in their resume because we all took some Spanish. I actually, my Spanish is pretty good my French is pretty good but you know, you put on your resume at the bottom languages, French and Spanish and he was like great here you go read this book and translate it for me. It was actually, it was a book by, the Spanish book he gave me was a cookbook by Ferran Adria, one of the greatest chefs of all time at El Bulli. And I had to kinda translate, sight unseen, his recipes. Very complicated recipes that use you know, very esoteric ingredients like you know, a lot of powders and crazy chemicals that at the time I had never heard of before. So that was an adventure. He definitely criticized a lot of my answers and I walked out of there thinking well that was a complete failure. I really bombed that, like I couldn't believe. But you know what; I got to spend 3 hours with Jeffrey Steingarten. And even in the interview I learned so much. At the time I remember, I didnít know what a tamale was. I'm from Canada, I just want to say that again one more time. [audience laughs] >>Gail: We donít have, we donít have a lot of great Mexican, there isn't the Mexican community in Canada that there is here. There is, you know, I had not ever really eaten great Mexican food, I didnít know what a tamale was. I thought it was a plant, maybe a vegetable and he had just gotten back from a tamale festival where he had been judging a competition and he was talking about them and I- it was just embarrassing when I think back at how many mistakes I made in that interview. But he called me a week later and offered me the job. And what I found amazing after working for him, what I realized was that what I had said kinda didnít matter. He was just testing sort of my strength of character and that I wouldnít buckle under his demands and that when I started working for him I realized that there was this incredible network of women who worked for him before me and his bookkeeper who was working there at the same time as me and who went to work for him after me. And we all kinda share this very same, I guess strength, I had two older brothers and so I got bullied a lot as a kid, in a good way you know teased and pushed. Knew how to provoke me. But ultimately were always really protective of me. And Jeffrey could sort of see that and knew that I wouldnít put up with any of his shtick. And so we ended up really getting along well. He definitely pushed my buttons. But he also taught me so much about food and eating and- >>Frank: And about the decomposition of beef. >>Gail: And about, exactly, about how quickly beef could rot when left on a counter in July in an unairconditioned apartment with maggots. So that was a really educational moment in my life, for sure. >>Frank: You said he made you taste the wine and give your tasting notes. In the book you also say he made you guess the grape, but you donít tell us whether you got the guess right. >>Gail: I didnít get the grape right. I mean it was a red, it was a Spanish red. Of course, I mean I was 23 I'd only been drinking legally for 2 years in this country anyway. In Canada I'd been drinking since I was 14. [Audience giggle] >>Gail: But, not that that's legal and I'd never did it. >>Frank: Not that you're, you're not advising anybody. >>Gail: I was responsible, I was never driving, you should never- Anyway, that's bad. But I didn't get it right. I didnít get the grape right but I definitely gave him decent notes. Like I could tell the you know, kind of the general characteristics of the wine. You know, it was very spicy and it was a pretty full bodied red like you know, a Spanish red wine. That's all I remember about it but I remember being ridiculed because I had no idea really what I was talking about. All good lessons to learn. >>Frank: In all of this time, in the cooking in the kitchens, working with Jeffrey are you ever thinking I want to be on TV? >>Gail: Never. There wasn't really, I mean I guess there was food television, the Food Network existed. Julia Child certainly, I mean that's kind of the funny thing about food television, that we talk about it as its new. And I still think of food television, certainly food competition, you know reality, the mix of reality television and food television as a very new thing. Julia Child had been cooking on television since the 60s so it's actually not and Jacques PÈpin certainly, it's not that new but it was not in my consciousness the way that now people tell me every day they want to be on television, they want to cook on television, they want to be a chef. To a lot of people, being a chef is being on television. There's an irony there. But certainly it was never anything that entered my mind really until I was told to go on television. >>Frank: So talk a little bit about how, I mean you're at Food & Wine magazine at that point, how you end up through no particular- >>Gail: Right. >>Frank: -designs at it or cut concerted effort ending up on Top Chef. >>Gail: I, when I left Jeffrey I went to work for Daniel Boulud a many years, chef of many many restaurants all over the world but certainly he's a New York, we can call him our own even if he's French. He's certainly our adopted hero. And I worked for him in public relations, so for many years I spent time working behind the scenes on everything that Daniel did on television. So I came to know a lot of the sort of food producers in the city and a lot of food media magazines and newspaper. And I came to know the people at Food & Wine magazine which is how I then moved to go work for Food & Wine where, which has been my sort of home for seven years now. But when I first went to Food & Wine, the person whose job I had taken had done a lot of television for them kind of as their brand ambassador. He'd gone on television to talk, then what that meant was when New York One or the Today Show, the early show, needed someone to talk about recipes for Easter dinner or wine bargains or outdoor entertaining in the summer time, he would be the one to do the cooking segments. So when he left there was sort of a hole, our Editor in Chief couldn't do all of it and she actually you know, as much as she is an incredible knowledge of food, she's not had professional cooking training. And I happened to have that professional cooking training that the guy before me had had so when I first went they asked if I would do a little media training and start doing those type of segments. So I started doing segments here and there, small things like that on television two or three minutes. Very nerve wracking, and I try not to do this very often, you look at back on those early segments it was mortifying, I was so nervous because it's very hard to do live television. And I started doing more and more of it and started to being a little else's nervous and about a year into my job, which this whole part of my job was a very side piece. It was kind of my extracurricular activity on the side and when I was simultaneously running part of the marketing department at Food & Wine, I was called into the VP of Marketing's office, she's now our publisher but at the time she was our VP of Marketing. And she called me into her office on like a random Tuesday in September and said so, we're thinking of doing this reality food show with Bravo, we havenít really ironed out the details but we're doing a partnership with them and they want to interview a bunch of our editors and if they like you they might have you on as kind of a guest judge. So can you go to 30 Rock tomorrow morning at 8 am and do a little screen test? And my first reaction was I don't know what a screen test is. And I donít watch reality television and I'm scared to death of reality television because at the time too, reality television at the time. This was 2005, we've come a long way in the 6ish years since this happened. Six and a half years. You know, reality television to me at the time meant Fear Factor or Survivor. So in my head, the only thing that I can think is like how am I gonna tell my mother that I'm gonna be like on a desert island eating bugs you know, tied to a tree or something crazy like that. And what is Food & Wine putting me up to? So I went to 30 Rock and they put me, Bravo ñ the producer for Bravo put me in a little room with a camera and started asking me questions. And at the end of the interview I sort of thought; alright well that was that and I didnít think twice about it. And for a month we didnít hear anything. And in early October our publisher got a call from Bravo saying "We're making the show, it's called Top Chef and we need Gail to fly to San Francisco to shoot the first season." So I literally packed up everything I owned and went there literally thinking I would go for 3 weeks, I left my job, I mean I have a full time job, I would go for weeks 3 and shoot this crazy show that I really had no idea what it was even about. Although they promised me I would not be tied to a tree eating bugs so that was good to know. And then I'd come back and go back to my life and it would all sort of be a flash in the pan. And 9 seasons and 2 spin offs and one really shiny Emmy later, still eating but sometimes I'm eating on desert islands actually. But at least the foods been good. >>Frank Bruni: Did you have even a moment's hesitation or were you on board from the beginning? >>Gail: Oh I had a lot of hesitation. >>Frank Bruni: What were your reservations? >>Gail: A couple, you know I have this, Tom and I joke a lot about it now. There was a moment the first day, so I get to San Francisco, and I'm alone and Bravo and Food & Wine are still sorting out the contract. So because it hasnít been signed no one from Bravo is talking to me. And I'm sort of alone in San Francisco sitting at the bar at Delfina Pizzeria, really delicious, I'm thinking you know what did I get myself into? I'm kind of alone here for 3 weeks of my life and my husband who- I wasnít actually married to him, the person who became my husband I'm calling like at night crying sad and lonely, not sure how this was gonna go. And I got to set that first day and I sat beside Tom, who I had met many years before when I worked for Jeffrey Steingarten and actually I was very good friends with Tom's ex-assistant, so we sort of had a familiarity about each other. Tom had worked with Food & Wine all the time, so we knew each other vaguely but not well. I remember looking at him and thinking what have we done? What is this? And I think both of our fears were- I wasnít so worried that the show would fail, because, it didn't bother me so much if strangers sort of in you know, some other state somewhere and watched the show and didn't like it and said bad things and then it went off the air. Our other, my biggest fear was that my friends and my peers in the food industry would laugh at us. That it wouldnít be taken seriously. That it would be you know that we would be selling out, so to speak. That the food would be sort of a joke and that the chefs that they'd chosen would would not be taken seriously and that I would embarrass Food & Wine and of course myself and I'd never work in this town again. And we got, I donít know, a cross between lucky and really great TV making I guess. Our producers had the same reservations we had and luckily really wanted to make the same show from the start that Tom and I wanted to make. We wanted it to be about the chefs, not about us. We wanted it to be about the food. We wanted the food to be served hot. We wanted it to be true and to feel authentic to what it's really like to cook in a kitchen. Granted I understand that chefs are not cooking for vending machines very often, but that the lessons they were learning and that feeling of sort of, the pressure and the sense of urgency in a kitchen and the skill and craft of what these young chefs do every day would be, would be authenticated. And I think more or less, that's what we've loved about the show. >>Frank Bruni: Now that first season, since Top Chef was new, it couldn't have been as powerful as a magnet for young chefs that couldn't have been as- >>Gail Simmons: No. >>Frank Bruni: How does the food that first season stack up against the food in subsequent seasons? >>Gail Simmons: Sure. >>Frank Bruni: When you presumably had more people knocking on the door. >>Gail Simmons: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I still to this day don't know how they cast for the first season. How they actually got, lured people in because there was no precedent. There were no other shows there was no season before it to give it any sort of you know, precedent of what to expect or why chefs should do it. And that first season, it's amazing to look back, we've certainly changed a lot of the show's format that way. That first season there was a much greater mix of chefs because we didnít know what our audience would want. There were, there was a girl who was in culinary school, that would never happen today. There was a girl who was a very accomplished home cook who taught cooking, she was a cooking teacher but in the very home sense, out of her home. That would never happen today. And not that they weren't great but after that first season we learned that our audience really wants this to be about professional chefs. Chefs who are running restaurants at the highest level around the country. And now that's the kind of chef that we have you know, across the board. At this point, season nine, all of the chefs in the show run restaurants, they're line cooks, they're sous-chef at the- and a sous-chef is the second in command by the way. People think a sous-chef might be all the little people running under them. The sous-chef is the chef who is the second in command at a restaurant, so very- you have to work your way up to be a sous-chef or a chef, a chef de cuisine an executive chef. And running really some of the greatest restaurants around the country so we've certainly upped the ante. And that said, that first season there was some awesome talent, too. I mean Harold Dieterle won that firs season and he now two, soon to be three restaurants in New York. Very well reviewed by the New York Times. Did you ever review his restaurant? >>Frank Bruni: His first one, yes. >>Gail Simmons: His first one. You know he's done really really well, he has two restaurants that are taken very seriously and he does an amazing job. You know several of the other, the chefs on that first season have gone on to do great things and are still really going strong. It's interesting how it's become a vehicle for them and how at last count, I can't even remember, how many chefs on our show, not just winners but have you know, gone on to really run and earn successful award winning restaurants. So we're really proud how that sort of evolved. >>Frank Bruni: Are there other particular chef, you call them cheftestants right? >>Gail Simmons: Yeah yeah I didnít really ñ thatís a Bravo word. [audience laughter] >>Gail Simmons: Not in the dictionary. >>Frank Bruni: Oxford hasn't picked it up yet? No? Are there cheftestants whose post-script to Top Chef, their post-scripts have surprised you especially either- >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: -either because they've done much better or because they faded and you thought this was- >>Gail Simmons: Right >>Frank Bruni: - going to be an amazing spring board for them? >>Gail Simmons: Both certainly. There have been, what's interesting is that for a while it was hard to tell if this show was going to be taken, I mean as much as the industry really embraced it as a follow up to the other question about my fears, I have to say we've been really blessed that the industry really has loved it. We've had such incredible talent chefs, guest judges on the show and beyond you know, the entertainment world has embraced it. There was a seven page article in the Hollywood Reporter last week about Top Chef, so it's kind of had this amazing crossover appeal and really great chefs have embraced it, you know contestants have just gotten better and better. But we always, we get blamed when the chefs didnít do well, afterwards that it's our fault. But actually we always say to the chefs we give this opportunity, it's what you make of it. You can act however you want afterwards and hopefully you'll take it and run with it and do a great job. And many have. You know, Michael Voltaggio who was the winner of Top Chef 6 just opened a very serious restaurant in Los Angeles called Ink that you know, we're all really excited, about Stephanie Izard in Chicago opened a restaurant called the Girl & the Goat which for me was sort of an amazing moment because she was awarded an award last year by Food & Wine magazine. We give this award the best new chef every year, we honor the 10 sort of strongest up and coming chefs around the country who we think will be the country's next generation of top talent. So I always have sat in the middle there because I'm on Top Chef but Food & Wine does this best new chef thing and they never crossed and Stephanie won that award last year. So that was real big deal for me personally, it felt really great to see that our Top Chefs really could be at that level. You know there's chefs like Fabio Viviani who was on our fifth season who's you know, his restaurants have gotten kind of lukewarm reviews but he's got them but he's also doing like Domino's pizza ads. And I'm not saying that in a disappointed way, it's unbelievable like you know, he's that main stream in America that he's really crossed over to have that much success, that's a big deal that's a huge endorsement. You know everyone has to make their own decisions and do what works for them and he has this amazing personality and he knows thatís his strength and he's worked it and you know, he's done really well with it too. >>Frank Bruni: You make clear in the book, and I think it's clear from watching Top Chef that you judges are pretty firmly segregated from the contestants. >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: -the cheftestants- >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: For the period you're judging them. Are you allowed to become friendly with them afterwards? Are some- >>Gail Simmons: Afterwards. Sure. >>Frank Bruni: Are some of them good friends of yours today? >>Gail Simmons: Absolutely. >>Frank Bruni: Which ones and how did it happen? >>Gail Simmons: You know we really do keep separate from them. When you see the whole show put together, as a viewer you see the kitchen and the action cooking. You see them in their interviews, you see them in the house. And then you see them with us at the judges table or at the challenges. We don't see any of that except where we are. Like when you see us physically at the challenge at the judges table, that's the only time we the chefs. So we donít know any of that stuff that goes on. We donít get to know them at all. We donít know who's mean and who's a villain and who's the one getting bullied or who's the one who hates us. We donít know any of that and it actually doesn't matter, it's what keeps us on the straight and narrow, that we just judge about the food. When the show ends and we wait until the show has aired completely, we donít have any contact with them at all, we could certainly you know, get to know them a little more. And we start seeing them, you know the food community is really small, we go to events and they're there. And you know Bravo keeps us all in this tight little oddball family. But there aren't many that I become good friends with. I mean certainly Harold Dieterle, you know he was our number one guinea pig. And he has been so supportive and great and has become a really good friend. You know the Voltaggio brothers I love; I think they're just unbelievable cooks and really great guys. Stephanie Izard. Spike Mendelsohn who was on season 5 originally and then was on All Star with us as well. He has great restaurants in DC. He's done so well and I love when I get to hang out with him. Let me think. Oh Carla Hall, she has done so well. I mean she was an example, she was on season five with us. She was the hooty hoo girl, does anyone know what I'm talking about? She was on season five and we all underestimated her because she was sort of quiet and she worked as a caterer, she wasn't as macho as all the people who we thought had really you know strong stronger more aggressive personalities. She snuck up and made it to the finals to the finale in her season and again in the All Star season. She is such a force and she has the most amazing energy to her. I mean just being in a room with her makes you smile. She's so much fun and now she's on the Chew so I get to hang out with her a lot and she's just an amazing woman. I'm really proud of her. >>Frank Bruni: You mentioned the Chew, what do you watch on TV? I mean do you, you said you didnít watch reality before Top Chef. >>Gail Simmons: I donít, still I donít watch a lot of food shows. I donít know if, you know there's certainly some I watch. Like you know, on the Food Network I love watching Alton Brown. I certainly watch Top Chef, cause I'm you know, I have a mandate I gotta write a blog, I need to know what happens. Often I know, I was there but you donít know all the other stuff so I have to watch that stuff to learn. What other shows do I watch? I watch Anthony Bourdain totally. I mean a lot a food travel channel stuff. Andrew Zimmerman is a good friend, he has Bizarre Foods. And I think his show just gets better every season, so I watch him a lot. And then I watch a lot of you know, non-reality travel food stuff. I watch a lot of Friday Night Lights on Netflix, right now season four. It's bad, I am decimated by what's going on with Coach Taylor, but we're getting there. It's gonna get better, I can see bright days ahead. >>Frank Bruni: You mentioned travel just now. You mention it frequently in the book, where have you had the best food in the world and where do you most long to go back to? >>Gail Simmons: Where- >>Frank Bruni: To eat? >>Gail Simmons: - that's like the million dollar question, Frank as you know. I mean I think actually to just preface it, I think kinda the best thing about Top Chef, besides how much I love the contestants is that really we travel for the show so much. You know we do every season in a new city and then the finale of that season in another place as well. So not only do I get to travel to a lot of cities that I've never spent time before. But we're there for you know about five or six weeks now every time. So I get to actually really spend a lot of time in cities I never spent a lot of time in before. I mean even Chicago, until we shot there. >>Frank Bruni: Even though you grew up in Toronto? >>Gail Simmons: Yeah, it's amazing because they're pretty similar, they're very close but I just never had the occasion to go. I mean of all cities in the States I think right now, Chicago, the food of Chicago the chefs of Chicago there's a energy there that I'm really amazed by and impressed with every time I'm there now. New Orleans is another kinda US city that blows me away, food culturally. On a greater kind of world level, we got to go to Singapore two seasons ago for our finale. I took a little detour and went to Indonesia and that was pretty exciting from a food prospective. But Singapore itself, Singapore's sort of a bizarre place I found. Because culturally it's such a modern city, you donít see a lot of the history. They sort of built sky scrapers to cover up a lot of the history of that part of the world. The food and the multicultural sort of like mix has created this extraordinary, very unique place to eat and the food culture in Singapore is kind of unlike anything I've ever had. From the street stalls I mean you literally everyone, from high powered executive to you know any level, you eat on the street. It has the strongest best street food I've ever had. And then it has kind of you know, some of the best restaurants in the world, all in one. You know I could go to Paris forever, I mean who couldn't eat tarts in Paris for the rest of their life? Where else have I really been excited by eating? >>Frank Bruni: What about here in New York? Where do- >>Gail Simmons: Yeah. >>Frank Bruni: -find yourself going most often? >>Gail Simmons: Oh my God. You know I eat so much out in New York for my job, to sort of keep up with things and it's hard to sort of go back to the same place twice but then there's, there are I mean right now there's a lot of restaurants I'm really excited about in New York. I'm excited about new, sort of semi new I think people who do sort of really interesting things. Restaurants like Aldea right on 17th St here, George Mendez is a young chef who is Portuguese and he's, there aren't a lot of really high end sort of Portuguese restaurants right now, I really can't think of that many at all in New York. I think that he-- people think that Portuguese food is just kind of like Spanish food and it's not, it's really interesting and I think he just does a beautiful job. I'm excited about kind of a lot of local small places. I'm excited about Parm, in Nolita, Terrizzi's, those guys. I actually wrote, the great thing about working for Daniel Boulud was that he has a pretty big empire of restaurants and when I was working there, you know he has a lot of young people working for him, a lot of young chefs. Because it's a young persons job in a lot of ways and so, I worked, when I worked with Daniel in kind of 2002, 3, 4, we had this kind of crew of young people that worked for him. Young chefs in front of the house and me in marketing, special event people. And we all really stuck together and became really good friends and now we've all gone out and done all different things. So there's this sort of weird amazing octopus arms that Daniel has of the next generation of people who are doing really great things. and Rich from Terrizzi's is one of them. Andrew Carmellini is another, Andrew was Daniel's chef de cuisine at CafÈ Boulud for I dunno 8 years or something. And now he has Locanda Verde and The Dutch and I think he's just doing such a great job. And he's sort of you know, in his own way a mentor of mine. I'm really excited about how well he's done. I dunno, I feel like there's getting to be really good barbeque in New York which excites me. I spent the summer in Texas, so I got to eat a lot of barbeque. I like that New York is getting better at it. >>Frank Bruni: When you said earlier live television is hard, what do you think those of us who are just watching it but donít do it, what donít we appreciate? What's the peculiar skill that's difficult and hard there? >>Gail Simmons: You know a couple things one timing, I mean when you're doing live television, I mean obviously Top Chef isn't live. We did one live finale on Top Chef, for season three. And it was sort of an experiment and it was way harder than what we do every day. I mean when we film Top Chef you know we can sit and talk for 7 hours and it gets edited down to 15 minutes. Live television in itself, like I just did the Today Show this morning and timing is such a crazy factor, in live television. Things have to move so quickly and you have no sense of how that timing works. So that always is very nerve wracking. Combined with the way we speak umm, there it is I just said umm. When I did media training the one thing that they taught me about more than anything else was learning to listen to yourself speak. We use a lot of words in every day conversation that on live television just don't work out very well. They donít mean anything to your audience. Words like delicious and amazing. Words that are kind of descriptive words but donít really tell you anything about the food. I can tell you something that, I can tell you that something is delicious I know that you know that that means that I liked it but, what does that tell you about what it tasted like? Not much. Was it gooey? Was it chocolately? Was it rich? Was it light? Was it fright? Was it bright? Was it fresh? Was it acidic? Was it spicy? Delicious tells me nothing. So it's about eliminating a lot of those words from your vocabulary. When you have two and a half minutes to get through three recipes on television that was kind of the biggest learning curve, for me for sure. >>Frank Bruni: You also make the point in the book that eating is so subjective, that taste is subjective ñ >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: Given that, how can one come to conclusions on a show like Top Chef? Is it just the aggregate of everybody's subjectivity or? >>Gail Simmons: You know it, a little bit but it's certainly the question I get asked a lot. How do you, first of all how do you judge? Like who the hell are you to judge? That's the first question. But, which I talk about a lot in the book. But even more so how does one esoterically, how do you judge food when food is so much about personal taste? I would argue that judging food on a macro level isnít about personal taste, not at all. But I would say only about 20% of the judging experience is about personal taste, for me. Eighty percent of it is science, cooking is chemistry more than anything else. Yes, there are certain foods that I donít like and a lot of food that I love, you know a lot of flavors that I love. But that is not how I personally have learned to judge food. Because I went to culinary school and I learned science of cooking, not that everyone has to go to culinary school, you really just have to eat a lot and pay attention to what you're eating. But you know, you learn to understand when someone says that you're supposed to cook a steak medium rare, the chef suggests you cook it, you eat it medium rare. That doesnít mean you have to like medium rare but there's a reason that a certain cut of meat a strip loin for example, a New York strip should be cooked to medium rare because that cut of meat, scientifically that is the best way to cook it to that exact temperature and there is a degree of doneness that will bring out that best flavor and texture qualities of that piece of meat. And knife skills come into play. When you have great knife skills and you cut food properly, when you cut it, let's say you're cutting a bunch of carrots to cook in your dish. You want to cut your carrots consistently to the exact same size so that every piece is the same so that they'll cook at a consistent level. So that they're all cooked to the same doneness, cause if one piece is really big and one piece is really small, the small piece is going to cook more than the big, you know quicker than the big piece and then when you eat it one piece will be crunchy and one piece will be soft or overcooked. So it's really science it's about the reaction of protein and heat or sugar and heat, caramelization. So when you learn how to think about how food should be cooked to its optimum levels, you look at a plate a little bit differently and it becomes actually very objective. I'm kind of rambling I'm probably not making much sense anymore. Then obviously the flavor combination thing comes into effect. Do I like this? You know, some of it is about does it taste good together? But a lot of it also is about understanding why flavors taste good together. There needs to be balance there needs to be harmony. When you eat a piece of food, why does it taste good? Because it has richness and it has a bit of acid that cuts the richness or it has you know, an umami flavor a saltiness a sweetness, all those tastes buds are there for a reason and you want balance and that's what makes food appealing. So it's sort of learning that about food that makes me understand how to judge it a little better. >>Frank Bruni: I want to ask you one more question but then I also want to point out that there are microphones there and there and since there are a lot of people here weíll give them a chance to- >>Gail Simmons: Yeah. >>Frank Bruni: -ask you whatever they want. >>Gail Simmons: Sure. >>Frank Bruni: So, anyone who's got a question, think about it and maybe get to a microphone. Top Chef Desserts- >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: How does the production the putting together of that differ ñ I think of dessert making- >>Gail Simmons: Right. >>Frank Bruni: -as involving a lot more equipment, often it can be much more technical it can be much- there a much more theatrical- >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Frank Bruni: -element to it. Is it a harder show to pull off? What kind of tweaks did you have to make to have that work? >>Gail Simmons: I think Top Chef Desserts is a harder show to pull off. I mean they're on different, they're obviously slightly different. When we first started shooting Top Chef Just Desserts, which we've now done two seasons, it was a spin-off of the original, but for pastry. I think we all thought that it would just be Top Chef but with a few more ovens and a lot more sugar. But we realized really quickly was that baking pastry, the making of pastry at the professional level, is actually a totally different science. Much more intricate, much more complex in that when you make a cake, there's no tasting as you go, there's no throwing in a little of this and a little bit of that. There's also bake time required and then once it's baked it needs to be cooled and iced and sliced and plated and so the whole process of baking desserts and making desserts is really really different. So we had to account for that which we sort of thought about later in the process which made for some really interesting challenges. But it really is and the personality of a pastry chef is really different because of it. Their job is much more scientific to the microgram. You know when make a recipe, when you're making if you know how to make a stew you can make 50 stews and you could throw a little of your leftover this and a little bit of onion and then you could put in some tomatoes or if you want you can leave out the tomatoes, put in some carrots. It doesn't work like that when you cook a recipe, when you making that cake you need an exact ratio of flour to sugar to egg or to fat. You know, the gluten content needs to be in exact balance with the baking powder and the baking soda so that it will rise properly. And all of this, if it's out of whack by even a gram or so will ruin the process. So in my experience, pastry chefs are a lot more meticulous, a lot more exacting which allows us to do a lot too. Because I also think that desserts are a lot more beautiful, visually, for our audience. And the work you can do with chocolate and sugar is sort of extraordinary if you really have chefs at that level. So it was an exciting show to make but a huge learning curve for me, for sure. Hi. >>Male Audience Member #1: Hi, how are you doing? Thanks for coming. >>Gail Simmons: Thank you. >>Male Audience Member #1: I'd say that there's a lot of consensus at the Top Chef judges table probably driven by that 80% of objectivity you were talking about. >>Gail Simmons: Right. >>Male Audience Member #1: Well what do you think is your sort of unique perspective that you bring when you're talking about you know what you think is the best or what you think is the worst compared to Tom or Padma? >>Gail Simmons: That's a great question. There is and there isn't. Yes there mostly is consensus because I do think we're all sort of now looking for similar things but not always. They love when we fight; it's my producers' favorite thing in the world. And it definitely happens. I do think though that we all have taken on different roles and that also is why it works. Because we're looking for different things and we bring to the table different things. I like to think that our roles are sort of like this: so Tom is the chef of the kitchen, when he does that walk through in the kitchen, it's as if he's the chef walking through his own line right before a really busy service and he's looking at the cooks and making sure they're ready and testing them. Are you ready? Did you think of this? Are you sure you want to do that? Then he comes out and tastes the food, and when he tastes it in his mind, and this is my opinion of him, I havenít asked him if this is right or not, but you know he tastes the food and he thinks "Is this food cooked to the quality of what I would want in my kitchen? If I, if someone, if a cook in my restaurant cooked this would I praise them or would I make them wash dishes or fire them?" He comes with a very technical a very specific sort of outlook about, from a very sort of cheffy stand point. He's there to be the chef of the kitchen and to bring to our table his standards. Obviously he's very successful with the extraordinary empire of restaurants that he's been cooking, he's been cooking for 25 years. At the time, this is an aside, but the time that he got his first 3 star review in the New York Times he was like the youngest chef I think in history to do so. He was like 26 or 27 years old at Mondrian, I feel like I know his bio way too well. We spend a lot of time together. So that's kind of his perspective. My perspective I always say, I 'm sort of the, I'm the food critic. I am coming to the restaurant as an educated diner. I'm the restaurant reviewer for that matter. I have training, I do it for a living, it's my profession. I've been doing it for 15 years. And if I were to eat this meal, how would I rate it if I was writing a review or if I was recommending it in Food & Wine magazine? Would I recommend it? Would I tell everyone at home about it? Did I have a great experience? Because if I did I want to write about it and I want to praise it. If I didn't, I'm never going back to the restaurant and I'm gonna tell people I know that they shouldnít go either. And that's also why every meal counts, by the way. Thatís why we can't ever judge people on how good they did cumulatively. It needs to be based on that exact dish. And that dish only, every challenge. Because you can't say well they were really good yesterday but today they're not so good but they were great yesterday so we'll let them go because if you go to a restaurant and you have a bad meal, you donít care if the chef's wife left him the next day or that they woke up on the wrong side of the bed, you donít know what goes on in the kitchen and you donít care. You just want your dish to be great. So that's how I think of the food. Padma's role I think is a number of things. A: she's the hostess, she greats you, she draws you in makes you comfortable, gets you talking as the diner and you know as the chef. Making sure that you have what you need to give us the best experience you can. She's also sort of the enthusiastic diner, she doesnít have a professional training but she loves to eat. She's eaten a lot all over the world. And yes, she eats despite what people might think. She does have that body, but I've also seen her pack it in. [audience laughter] >>Gail Simmons: And you know, and so she's sort of like, you know, the viewer. She's the person who wants to eat great food, is looking for a great experience. And if she's gonna spend her money on a great meal, was this meal worth it? My hard earned dollars as just the every person who wants to go out and eat a great dinner. So that ñ >>Male Audience Member #1: Yes. >>Gail Simmons: - thatís sort how I think of us. >>Male Audience Member #1: What's the last big fight you guys had? >>Gail Simmons: Oh this finale, which hasnít aired yet. We just shot it in Vancouver in January which was a cruel joke because p.s. we also shot the season in Texas in July. So someone is after us. It was the hottest summer on record in 60 years in Texas and it was like one of the coldest days ever in Vancouver when we shot it was like I think 18 degrees? So yeah, we argued a lot. I mean I think we finished shooting the finale, the final final episode at 5 in the morning. Cause we just couldn't agree at all, which also often happens actually. It's not rare that we have finished our finale at 5, 6, 7 o'clock in the morning. Weíve seen the sunrise I would say, on, of the 9 finales we've shot, I would say on 5 of 9 of them we have seen the birds chirp because we, you know, we wanna make sure we've made the right decision. Hi. >>Female Audience Member #1: Hi. How do you think the rise of Top Chef and other contemporary reality food in television has affected food writing? >>Gail Simmons: You know, it's a tricky question and I do address this a bit in the book, as I said when I first wanted to be a food writer, when I first graduated school and wanted to work in food media, food media was so so different than it is now. There weren't blogs, there weren't like, there weren't even that many food websites at least that we knew, it was just all starting. It was really in its infancy, there certainly wasn't Twitter, there wasn't Facebook, there wasn't Google+, I'm a fan of Google+ I'm on Google+. [audience laughter] >>Gail Simmons: Thank you Zagat. But I you know, so I think that it all has been one big conversation and I think food reality competitions have been a big part of that. I'd like to think as much as sometimes all of the tweeting and blogging and can sometimes be distracting and cruel and gossipy, you know, I think that people don't realize how much power they wield when they write disparaging things. I do think that all of it together, the food shows and social media have created a climate that has made us all a lot smarter. A lot more educated. There's no greater compliment for me when people come up to me, strangers on the street and tell me that they watch Top Chef with their children and then they help, their children help them cook dinner. Or when they go out to eat and they now read the menu differently and last night they went to a restaurant and they tried sweet breads for the first time because they'd seen us cook it on the show. I think a truck is about to drive through the stage, just let me know. [audience laughter] >>Gail Simmons: But you know, I think that we, I think that Top Chef certainly and all of the kinda food television have, have changed the conversation, have enhanced the dialogue that we can all now have. It's not just a monologue where as it used to be just restaurant critics you know, who would write a review and it's all anonymous, and that's still very important and I donít think that their power has changed and their importance have changed, but I definitely think that now it's become, because of Top Chef and because of social media it's all become a greater conversation that everyone can participate in. And have knowledge of a little more. I think it's all good, is the end result. >>Female Audience Member #2: Hi. >>Gail Simmons: Hi. >>Female Audience Member #2: So with all your years of experience and writing and eating, I'm sure you're probably very adventuresome in your eating. Is there anything that you absolutely wouldnít eat or have had a hard time stomaching? >>Gail Simmons: There is nothing I wouldn't eat to date but that could change, so who knows. There's nothing I won't try, there's nothing I won't taste. I donít like to eat for sport, you know I donít like to eat just for the sake of eating, you know, I dunno like some random thing just for the sake of doing it? But if it's cooked for me with love and attention and for a purpose, there's nothing I won't try. There are certainly things I donít like to eat, that I'd prefer not to like, I mean there's no denying there's a level of subjectivity to how we all, right? There are certainly things I'd prefer to eat. Some days I crave hamburgers, some days you know, I'd prefer not to eat whatever it is, green pepper. But and there are certainly things that, everyone I think all of us have a little bit of sort of irrational food likes and dislikes, personal preferences. So I certainly have a few of those. I have this weird thing about black beans and it's sort of this drawn out, totally irrational story. And I admit that it's irrational, no offense to black beans and the Black Bean Association of America. It's just a personal aversion, I had a bad experience, I donít want to eat black beans. That said, if black beans are served to me on the show or if I'm at someone's house and they make something with black beans I will always always taste it. And sometimes even like it, I'll just never make it for myself. >>Male Audience Member #2: Hi, I once had to judge a sort of Top Chef like cooking competition here at Google. >>Gail Simmons: Right. I've judged a Google like Top Chef- >>Male Audience Member #2: Yeah. >>Gail Simmons: -Christmas charity cooking thing. >>Male Audience Member #2: That was a much bigger deal than what I- >>Gail Simmons: So still, we're doing the same thing. >>Male Audience Member #2: Yeah. But it is surprisingly difficult. Like I guess coming into it I like I guess I didnít really understand the skill that's actually involved- >>Gail Simmons: Right. >>Male Audience Member #2: - in, because you're taking, you're tasting a lot of dishes and they're all pretty good. >>Gail Simmons: Yes. >>Male Audience Member #2: Right? >>Gail Simmons: Yes. That's exactly- >>Male Audience Member #2: But they all taste like but- >>Gail Simmons: A similar- >>Male Audience Member #2: It's not like they're the same dishes, right? >>Gail Simmons: Right. >>Male Audience Member #2: It's like all the same dishes, you might be able to tell one's better than the other. But when they're different dishes, it's really hard to kind of decide which one you, is actually better. What are your tips on kind of doing that sort of thing? >>Gail Simmons: You know we talk about this a lot of the show specifically because what we think the audience can't see and people get mad at us when we criticize little, little mistakes that people made. But what they donít understand is that when you have 10 dishes and they're all good, how do you differentiate between them? Because also at this level on the show specifically, they're all professional chefs, it's mostly all good. There were days, early days, when the food was really bad on Top Chef. I'm trying to think of, Frank judged with us once and I'm trying to remember how the food was that time. Do you remember if it was good? >>Frank Bruni: Oh yeah there was some really bad food. >>Gail Simmons: It happens. [audience laughter] >>Gail Simmons: It definitely happens. But we're getting better and especially near the end of a season and there's only 3 or 4 people left, they're the best people and sometimes it's all really good. Sometimes it's really obvious and there's bad stuff, but more times than not it's good. Or at least there's a few that are really good and then you have to still pick a winner. Or sometimes there's things that are all bad and how do you pick a winner, which is the greatest flaw? And you know, how do you say which was worse? That someone over cooked a piece of meat? Or that someone forgot to put their sauce on the plate? And it really becomes like nit picking, taking apart every dish and every component and figuring out which elements were better, which were worse and then looking at it as the whole picture. So we look at their knife skills we look at you know, their intention is really important too. Because sometimes I'll eat something and I won't think it's that great, but did it have a purpose? Maybe they did that for a reason and if they did and that's how they wanted it to be thatís why it's so important to get in front of them at the judges table and ask them what their intention was. Did they listen to the challenge? How well did they adhere to what they were supposed to do and was that successful? Would I want to pay for this dish if I were at a restaurant? And which one would I go back for again, I try to close my eyes sometimes and think ok if I walked away and two days from now, which of these dishes would I want to eat again? And so those are kind of all exercises we have to do. And sometimes it is really hard. I mean that's a good thing when there's five dishes that are all great, it actually means that we were really successful, it just makes our job harder but that's a really good problem to have. So it just takes, you know practice and talking it over. It's also really important, what I didnít talk about before with the question about our roles on the show. It's also really important to have a lot of different opinions. Because then there's a lot more balance. And often Tom or Padma or the guest judge who is even more objective cause they've never eaten these peoples food before, they have a different take on it. And sometimes they'll change my mind because I'll think that I like it at first bite but when we talk it over they'll explain to me that they looked at it this way or I looked at it another way. It's helpful to have that conversation and we really end up, that's why we're talking till 7 am often. >>Male Audience Member #2: That's fascinating, thanks. Is part of the, I've always kind of also wondered whether some of the challenges are to make it, some of the dishes worse? I mean really? >>Gail Simmons: you know, it's interesting, I donít think to make it worse, it's certainly to make it harder. Especially now that people think oh these challenges are getting more and more ridiculous, but really if we wanted them to cook in a quiet cool calm kitchen, exactly how they cook every day in their own restaurants we would just go eat in their own restaurants and that would make for really boring television. It needs, there needs to be a way to take them all out of their comfort zones and put them into situations they wouldnít necessarily be in because we want to see how time and again they can do that and still produce great dishes, cause that to me is the sign of a really talented craft, craftsmanship, crafting of their food. You know what I mean. That if we gave them the same things or made it really easy and put them in the circumstances that they were used to, it wouldn't be a challenge. So even though , yes it's crazy that we make them ski and then shoot and then cook, we want, you know cooking in a kitchen after 12 hours you cook differently than when you're bright eyed and bushy tailed at the start of the day. So we wanted to exhaust them a bit, we want to see their endurance, we want to see their sense of urgency those are actually very real skills you need to have in a kitchen. So we need to make it hard, because we need to separate you know, the best from the worst. >>Female Presenter: And that's all we have time for. Thank you for coming. >>Gail Simmons: Thank you so much. Thank you guys. [applause] >>Frank Bruni: You are, are you signing books? >>Gail Simmons: Yeah, sure. >>Frank Bruni: Ok. >>Gail Simmons: Absolutely.