Page 426
�1������������������������� Thursday, 23 November 2006
�2������������������������� [Status Conference]
�3������������������������� [Open session]
�4������������������������� [The accused entered court]
�5�������������������������� --- Upon commencing at 10.05 a.m.
�6����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Good morning to everyone in this courtroom, and good
�7��� morning also to those assisting us just outside the courtroom.
�8����������� Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
�9����������� THE REGISTRAR:� Good morning, Your Honour.� This is case number
10��� IT-96-23/2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragan Zelenovic.
11����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you, Madam Registrar.
12����������� May I have the appearances.� Prosecution first, please.
13����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Good morning, Your Honour.� My name is
14��� Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff, and I appear today together with Trial Attorney
15��� Mr. Manoj Sachdeva and our case manager Verica Balikic.
16����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff.
17���� �������And for the Defence.
18����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour.� My
19��� name is Zoran Jovanovic.� I am an attorney from Belgrade, and I am
20��� representing the accused, Dragan Zelenovic.� Thank you.
21����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you, Mr. Jovanovic.
22����������� Mr. Zelenovic, first question is whether you can hear me and can
23��� hear the other participants in this -- in this Status Conference in a
24��� language you understand.
25����������� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
Page 427
�1����������� JUDGE ORIE:� You may remain seated, Mr. Zelenovic.
�2����������� Mr. Zelenovic, this is a Status Conference, the first Status
�3��� Conference in your case, and it's unrelated to another hearing we recently
�4�� �had, which is the hearing under Rule 11 bis.� At that hearing the
�5��� possibility of your case to be referred to the former Yugoslavia was the
�6��� subject of discussion, whereas at this Status Conference we are focusing
�7��� on where the parties stand as far as trial preparation here in The Hague
�8��� is concerned.� This Status Conference was supposed to take place within
�9��� 120 days from the initial appearance, but due to unavailability of counsel
10��� it was rescheduled and now takes place at a little bit of this time-limit.
11����������� I'd like to address the parties.� Are there any disclosure issues
12��� outstanding at this moment?
13����������� Perhaps I should address you, Mr. Jovanovic, because you're the
14��� one who should receive any disclosed material.� Are there any issues
15��� outstanding in that respect?
16����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
17����������� Not for the time being.� The Defence is in constant contact with
18��� the Prosecution, and we have received materials from the Kunjarac and
19��� others case which is relevant for the present case, the written statements
20��� by the accused, transcripts of the public hearings, and the transcripts
21��� have been translated so that the accused can also read those materials.
22��� And before I arrived here, we received materials pursuant to Rule 68 from
23��� the Prosecution.� I have not yet been able to inspect it, but we have had
24��� no problems in this regard whatsoever.
25����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you.
Page 428
�1����������� Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, are there any surprises to be expected or --
�2��� while you know that sometimes disclosure issues suddenly come up.� Is
�3��� there any reason to assume that such surprises would be there in the near
�4 ���future?
�5����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� No, Your Honour, we have actually completed
�6��� the disclosure of both Rule 66 material and Rule 68 material and there are
�7��� no surprises to be expected.
�8����������� JUDGE ORIE:� That's good to hear.
�9����������� Then the next item I'd like to ask you about is the following.� We
10��� come to a point where soon I think the Prosecution would meet, perhaps,
11��� with the Defence and with the Senior Legal Officer and to see when
12��� pre-trial briefs could be submitted, witness lists, et cetera.� Although
13��� the case is not expected to be tried very soon, but let's say within the
14��� next three months, would the Prosecution be in a position to -- to tell
15��� the Court when pre-trial briefs could be submitted and when witness lists,
16��� exhibit lists, et cetera, could be produced?
17����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Your Honour, since the initial appearance we
18��� are in constant discussion with the Defence, and I think we can finalise
19��� all pre-trial issues within this week, I hope.� We have a meeting with the
20��� Defence today, and I hope the result will actually enable us to wrap up
21��� the case within a week or two, perhaps, and --
22����������� JUDGE ORIE:� So then the Chamber will hear soon from -- well, any
23��� scheduling issues --
24����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Yes.
25����������� JUDGE ORIE:� -- as far as pre-trial preparations are concerned?
Page 429
�1����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Yes, Your Honour.
�2����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes. �Thank you for that.
�3����������� Mr. Jovanovic, I see that you seem to agree with Madam
�4��� Uertz-Retzlaff on pre-trial issues to be resolved relatively soon.
�5����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, that's what I expect, Your
�6��� Honour.
�7����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.
�8����������� Then as a matter of fact as far as trial preparations and further
�9��� developments are concerned, there seems to be nothing more to be
10��� discussed, unless you, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, or you, Mr. Jovanovic, would
11��� have any issue to be raised at this moment.� I'll come later to the more
12��� personal issues like health and detention situation.
13����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Nothing from the Prosecution, Your Honour.
14����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Nothing from the Prosecution.
15����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have no issues
16��� that the Defence would like to raise, and as you say you will be asking
17��� questions about the health and some personal circumstances of the accused,
18��� but this is something that either the Defence or the accused may answer
19��� depending on your instructions, Your Honour.
20����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Then I also think - but please correct me when
21��� I'm wrong - that there are no pending motions at this moment.� I think the
22��� last decision by this Trial Chamber was delivered on the 11th of October,
23��� which decided the preliminary motion filed by the Defence on the form of
24��� the indictment, which was -- the motion was denied, but I don't think that
25��� there are any other motions pending, that there are any issues apart from
Page 430
�1��� disclosure and pre-trial developments.
�2����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� That's correct, Your Honour.
�3����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I agree, Your Honour.
�4����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Then finally, I'd like to address you
�5��� personally, Mr. Zelenovic.� Are there any health issues or any detention
�6��� issues you would like to raise, either by yourself or through counsel?
�7��� And I inform you that if any of the -- if there's any health issue to be
�8��� raised, that you always can ask to go into private session because health
�9��� issues are not necessarily to be heard in public.
10����������� Yes, I hear from Mr. Jovanovic.� Mr. Jovanovic.
11����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, thank you.� I don't
12��� think there is any need for us to go into private session.� We will not be
13��� going into any details.
14����������� The health of the accused, Dragan Zelenovic, has deteriorated
15��� substantially, and I -- I received the medical documents from the
16��� UN Detention Unit, and now let me just give you a very brief summary of
17��� the report with a diagnosis and his general health condition, this is here
18��� in this report, and the Defence has contacted both the Registry and the
19��� relevant bodies in the UN Detention Unit.� So this is being dealt with.
20����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� So I do understand that although the health
21��� situation has been deteriorated that proper medical care is provided.� Is
22��� that how I can understand your words?
23����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.� The accused has
24��� underwent -- has undergone medical examinations in hospitals, so not only
25��� in the UN Detention Unit.� He's being treated in the UN Detention Unit,
Page 431
�1��� and the accused has no objections to the therapy he's receiving right now.
�2����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you for that information.
�3����������� That as far as the medical condition of you, Mr. Zelenovic, is
�4��� concerned.� Is there any detention issue which you would like to bring to
�5��� my attention?
�6����������� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no.
�7����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Mr. Zelenovic, if you would sit down, then we would
�8��� be better able to follow you because you're so far away from the
�9��� microphone.� Yes.� Yes.
10����������� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
11����������� I have no problems in the Detention Unit, but I have problems when
12��� I'm transported to the Tribunal.� I have nothing to wear.� I have spent
13��� the last -- the last year in detention, and when I come here for a hearing
14��� I have to borrow clothes.� Because when I was in detention in Russia I was
15��� told that I should buy some clothes in -- when I was in jail there, and I
16��� even painted some rooms for them, but nothing happened in the end.
17����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Well, that's an issue that does not immediately
18��� affect the proceedings before this Trial Chamber, but I do understand -- I
19��� fully understand that you feel not very comfortable if you don't have your
20��� own clothes, which is in many systems specifically a right for those who
21��� are not yet tried to have their own clothes available.
22����������� Did you try to get in touch with your family to have any clothing
23��� sent or -- I must admit that I'm not fully familiar with how you would buy
24��� clothes in a detention situation.� I take it that there must be some
25��� possibility.� At least it's good that you have drawn the attention to this
Page 432
�1��� issue, which seems to be an issue primarily within the responsibility of
�2��� the Registry because it concerns the detention situation.
�3����������� Have you been in touch with your family to see whether you could
�4��� resolve it?
�5����������� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I wrote to the
�6��� government of the Republika Srpska through the Registry, and the response
�7��� that I got was, We cannot help them in any way.� They cannot get a ticket
�8��� to -- for my family to come here.� I have been here for six months without
�9��� any contact with my family.� My family has been unable to visit us, and
10��� the Republika Srpska government says, Well, we didn't surrender him.� He
11��� was transferred here from Russia by the Russian authorities to the
12��� Federation, so this has nothing to do with us.
13����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� I do understand the situation.� Again, it's
14��� good that you've drawn our attention to it because I can understand how
15��� uncomfortable it is for you, and it seems to be a problem which perhaps,
16��� also with the help of your counsel, seems not an insurmountable problem.
17����������� Mr. Jovanovic.
18����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.� Mr. Zelenovic's
19��� wife, who lives in Foca, is a very poor financial status, and that has
20��� been established in the course of the proceedings to establish his
21��� financial status in order to assign counsel.� On several occasions, I
22��� contacted Mr. Zelenovic's sister in Belgrade.� She sent some money to him
23��� and some warm clothing that he can use during walks in the Detention Unit,
24��� but that is all.� I'm always here to -- available to bring him whatever
25��� his family sends.
Page 433
�1����������� I also addressed the office for the cooperation with the ICTY and
�2��� the government of Republika Srpska, but they told me that the decision
�3��� concerning assistance that was in application before is now not in force
�4��� any longer and that they have absolutely no means to help Mr. Zelenovic
�5��� any longer.
�6����������� I am at your disposal for any contact that I can make, and every
�7��� time I come to visit I will bring whatever his family sends him.� He is in
�8��� telephone contact with his family, and I suppose it is up to his family
�9��� whether they are going to send him money, clothes, or whatever else.
10����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Mr. Jovanovic, I have been Defence counsel in
11��� the past and I could not imagine that any of my clients in the past
12��� finally would not have some clothes of their own in which they could
13��� appear in court.� It is -- I see it that as a problem who would pay for
14��� it, but finally I could not imagine that I would not with some inventivity
15��� resolve that problem, and I take it that you have difficulties to imagine
16��� yourself that not in any way you could resolve this problem.
17����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, I feel the same
18��� way as you, and I look at things the same way as you do.� And if I'm
19��� allowed to be creative, the problem will be resolved.� I will do
20��� everything in my power to resolve the problem within the framework of the
21��� Rules of Procedure of this Tribunal.
22����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� It is good to hear that you also consider the
23��� problem one that could and should be resolved.
24����������� Any other detention issue, Mr. Zelenovic?
25����������� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no.
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�1����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Is there any other matter to be raised at this
�2��� moment?
�3����������� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� No, Your Honour.
�4����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Mr. Jovanovic.
�5����������� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.
�6����������� JUDGE ORIE:� Then we'll adjourn sine die.
�7�������������������������� --- Whereupon the Status Conference
�8������������������������� adjourned at 10.23 a.m.
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