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Page 426

�1�� Thursday, 23 November 2006

�2�� [Status Conference]

�3�� [Open session]

�4�� [The accused entered court]

�5�� --- Upon commencing at 10.05 a.m.

�6�� JUDGE ORIE:� Good morning to everyone in this courtroom, and good

�7�� morning also to those assisting us just outside the courtroom.

�8�� Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.

�9�� THE REGISTRAR:� Good morning, Your Honour.� This is case number

10�� IT-96-23/2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragan Zelenovic.

11�� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you, Madam Registrar.

12�� May I have the appearances.� Prosecution first, please.

13�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Good morning, Your Honour.� My name is

14�� Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff, and I appear today together with Trial Attorney

15�� Mr. Manoj Sachdeva and our case manager Verica Balikic.

16�� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff.

17�� And for the Defence.

18�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour.� My

19�� name is Zoran Jovanovic.� I am an attorney from Belgrade, and I am

20�� representing the accused, Dragan Zelenovic.� Thank you.

21�� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you, Mr. Jovanovic.

22�� Mr. Zelenovic, first question is whether you can hear me and can

23�� hear the other participants in this -- in this Status Conference in a

24�� language you understand.

25�� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

Page 427

�1�� JUDGE ORIE:� You may remain seated, Mr. Zelenovic.

�2�� Mr. Zelenovic, this is a Status Conference, the first Status

�3�� Conference in your case, and it's unrelated to another hearing we recently

�4�� had, which is the hearing under Rule 11 bis.� At that hearing the

�5�� possibility of your case to be referred to the former Yugoslavia was the

�6�� subject of discussion, whereas at this Status Conference we are focusing

�7�� on where the parties stand as far as trial preparation here in The Hague

�8�� is concerned.� This Status Conference was supposed to take place within

�9�� 120 days from the initial appearance, but due to unavailability of counsel

10�� it was rescheduled and now takes place at a little bit of this time-limit.

11�� I'd like to address the parties.� Are there any disclosure issues

12�� outstanding at this moment?

13�� Perhaps I should address you, Mr. Jovanovic, because you're the

14�� one who should receive any disclosed material.� Are there any issues

15�� outstanding in that respect?

16�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

17�� Not for the time being.� The Defence is in constant contact with

18�� the Prosecution, and we have received materials from the Kunjarac and

19�� others case which is relevant for the present case, the written statements

20�� by the accused, transcripts of the public hearings, and the transcripts

21�� have been translated so that the accused can also read those materials.

22�� And before I arrived here, we received materials pursuant to Rule 68 from

23�� the Prosecution.� I have not yet been able to inspect it, but we have had

24�� no problems in this regard whatsoever.

25�� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you.

Page 428

�1�� Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, are there any surprises to be expected or --

�2�� while you know that sometimes disclosure issues suddenly come up.� Is

�3�� there any reason to assume that such surprises would be there in the near

�4 ��future?

�5�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� No, Your Honour, we have actually completed

�6�� the disclosure of both Rule 66 material and Rule 68 material and there are

�7�� no surprises to be expected.

�8�� JUDGE ORIE:� That's good to hear.

�9�� Then the next item I'd like to ask you about is the following.� We

10�� come to a point where soon I think the Prosecution would meet, perhaps,

11�� with the Defence and with the Senior Legal Officer and to see when

12�� pre-trial briefs could be submitted, witness lists, et cetera.� Although

13�� the case is not expected to be tried very soon, but let's say within the

14�� next three months, would the Prosecution be in a position to -- to tell

15�� the Court when pre-trial briefs could be submitted and when witness lists,

16�� exhibit lists, et cetera, could be produced?

17�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Your Honour, since the initial appearance we

18�� are in constant discussion with the Defence, and I think we can finalise

19�� all pre-trial issues within this week, I hope.� We have a meeting with the

20�� Defence today, and I hope the result will actually enable us to wrap up

21�� the case within a week or two, perhaps, and --

22�� JUDGE ORIE:� So then the Chamber will hear soon from -- well, any

23�� scheduling issues --

24�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Yes.

25�� JUDGE ORIE:� -- as far as pre-trial preparations are concerned?

Page 429

�1�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Yes, Your Honour.

�2�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes. �Thank you for that.

�3�� Mr. Jovanovic, I see that you seem to agree with Madam

�4�� Uertz-Retzlaff on pre-trial issues to be resolved relatively soon.

�5�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, that's what I expect, Your

�6�� Honour.

�7�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.

�8�� Then as a matter of fact as far as trial preparations and further

�9�� developments are concerned, there seems to be nothing more to be

10�� discussed, unless you, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, or you, Mr. Jovanovic, would

11�� have any issue to be raised at this moment.� I'll come later to the more

12�� personal issues like health and detention situation.

13�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� Nothing from the Prosecution, Your Honour.

14�� JUDGE ORIE:� Nothing from the Prosecution.

15�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have no issues

16�� that the Defence would like to raise, and as you say you will be asking

17�� questions about the health and some personal circumstances of the accused,

18�� but this is something that either the Defence or the accused may answer

19�� depending on your instructions, Your Honour.

20�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Then I also think - but please correct me when

21�� I'm wrong - that there are no pending motions at this moment.� I think the

22�� last decision by this Trial Chamber was delivered on the 11th of October,

23�� which decided the preliminary motion filed by the Defence on the form of

24�� the indictment, which was -- the motion was denied, but I don't think that

25�� there are any other motions pending, that there are any issues apart from

Page 430

�1�� disclosure and pre-trial developments.

�2�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� That's correct, Your Honour.

�3�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I agree, Your Honour.

�4�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Then finally, I'd like to address you

�5�� personally, Mr. Zelenovic.� Are there any health issues or any detention

�6�� issues you would like to raise, either by yourself or through counsel?

�7�� And I inform you that if any of the -- if there's any health issue to be

�8�� raised, that you always can ask to go into private session because health

�9�� issues are not necessarily to be heard in public.

10�� Yes, I hear from Mr. Jovanovic.� Mr. Jovanovic.

11�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, thank you.� I don't

12�� think there is any need for us to go into private session.� We will not be

13�� going into any details.

14�� The health of the accused, Dragan Zelenovic, has deteriorated

15�� substantially, and I -- I received the medical documents from the

16�� UN Detention Unit, and now let me just give you a very brief summary of

17�� the report with a diagnosis and his general health condition, this is here

18�� in this report, and the Defence has contacted both the Registry and the

19�� relevant bodies in the UN Detention Unit.� So this is being dealt with.

20�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� So I do understand that although the health

21�� situation has been deteriorated that proper medical care is provided.� Is

22�� that how I can understand your words?

23�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.� The accused has

24�� underwent -- has undergone medical examinations in hospitals, so not only

25�� in the UN Detention Unit.� He's being treated in the UN Detention Unit,

Page 431

�1�� and the accused has no objections to the therapy he's receiving right now.

�2�� JUDGE ORIE:� Thank you for that information.

�3�� That as far as the medical condition of you, Mr. Zelenovic, is

�4�� concerned.� Is there any detention issue which you would like to bring to

�5�� my attention?

�6�� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no.

�7�� JUDGE ORIE:� Mr. Zelenovic, if you would sit down, then we would

�8�� be better able to follow you because you're so far away from the

�9�� microphone.� Yes.� Yes.

10�� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

11�� I have no problems in the Detention Unit, but I have problems when

12�� I'm transported to the Tribunal.� I have nothing to wear.� I have spent

13�� the last -- the last year in detention, and when I come here for a hearing

14�� I have to borrow clothes.� Because when I was in detention in Russia I was

15�� told that I should buy some clothes in -- when I was in jail there, and I

16�� even painted some rooms for them, but nothing happened in the end.

17�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Well, that's an issue that does not immediately

18�� affect the proceedings before this Trial Chamber, but I do understand -- I

19�� fully understand that you feel not very comfortable if you don't have your

20�� own clothes, which is in many systems specifically a right for those who

21�� are not yet tried to have their own clothes available.

22�� Did you try to get in touch with your family to have any clothing

23�� sent or -- I must admit that I'm not fully familiar with how you would buy

24�� clothes in a detention situation.� I take it that there must be some

25�� possibility.� At least it's good that you have drawn the attention to this

Page 432

�1�� issue, which seems to be an issue primarily within the responsibility of

�2�� the Registry because it concerns the detention situation.

�3�� Have you been in touch with your family to see whether you could

�4�� resolve it?

�5�� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I wrote to the

�6�� government of the Republika Srpska through the Registry, and the response

�7�� that I got was, We cannot help them in any way.� They cannot get a ticket

�8�� to -- for my family to come here.� I have been here for six months without

�9�� any contact with my family.� My family has been unable to visit us, and

10�� the Republika Srpska government says, Well, we didn't surrender him.� He

11�� was transferred here from Russia by the Russian authorities to the

12�� Federation, so this has nothing to do with us.

13�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� I do understand the situation.� Again, it's

14�� good that you've drawn our attention to it because I can understand how

15�� uncomfortable it is for you, and it seems to be a problem which perhaps,

16�� also with the help of your counsel, seems not an insurmountable problem.

17�� Mr. Jovanovic.

18�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.� Mr. Zelenovic's

19�� wife, who lives in Foca, is a very poor financial status, and that has

20�� been established in the course of the proceedings to establish his

21�� financial status in order to assign counsel.� On several occasions, I

22�� contacted Mr. Zelenovic's sister in Belgrade.� She sent some money to him

23�� and some warm clothing that he can use during walks in the Detention Unit,

24�� but that is all.� I'm always here to -- available to bring him whatever

25�� his family sends.

Page 433

�1�� I also addressed the office for the cooperation with the ICTY and

�2�� the government of Republika Srpska, but they told me that the decision

�3�� concerning assistance that was in application before is now not in force

�4�� any longer and that they have absolutely no means to help Mr. Zelenovic

�5�� any longer.

�6�� I am at your disposal for any contact that I can make, and every

�7�� time I come to visit I will bring whatever his family sends him.� He is in

�8�� telephone contact with his family, and I suppose it is up to his family

�9�� whether they are going to send him money, clothes, or whatever else.

10�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� Mr. Jovanovic, I have been Defence counsel in

11�� the past and I could not imagine that any of my clients in the past

12�� finally would not have some clothes of their own in which they could

13�� appear in court.� It is -- I see it that as a problem who would pay for

14�� it, but finally I could not imagine that I would not with some inventivity

15�� resolve that problem, and I take it that you have difficulties to imagine

16�� yourself that not in any way you could resolve this problem.

17�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, I feel the same

18�� way as you, and I look at things the same way as you do.� And if I'm

19�� allowed to be creative, the problem will be resolved.� I will do

20�� everything in my power to resolve the problem within the framework of the

21�� Rules of Procedure of this Tribunal.

22�� JUDGE ORIE:� Yes.� It is good to hear that you also consider the

23�� problem one that could and should be resolved.

24�� Any other detention issue, Mr. Zelenovic?

25�� THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no.

Page 434

�1�� JUDGE ORIE:� Is there any other matter to be raised at this

�2�� moment?

�3�� MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF:� No, Your Honour.

�4�� JUDGE ORIE:� Mr. Jovanovic.

�5�� MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.

�6�� JUDGE ORIE:� Then we'll adjourn sine die.

�7�� --- Whereupon the Status Conference

�8�� adjourned at 10.23 a.m.

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