Bradley Riches: autism, Celebrity Big Brother and me

27th March 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 97

Presented by Emma Tracey

EMMA-           Hello, Bradley Riches.

BRADLEY-     Hello.

EMMA-           You are on later in the show talking about being in the Celebrity Big Brother house and being autistic in a house full of cameras.

BRADLEY-     [Laughs]

EMMA-           Yes. But the other bit of the show is about a dating app that claims to be entirely neurodiverse-friendly. And I just wondered, you’re an autistic man, a young, very young man, and also gay, and they do do same sex dating on this app, I just wondered whether you would use something like that.

BRADLEY-     Well, I’m obviously in a relationship right now.

EMMA-           Ah.

BRADLEY-     But beforehand I’ve never really used dating apps, mainly because of being misunderstood I think, because they kind of scare me. But as it’s a neurodivergent-friendly app then if I was single then I’d definitely think about it, definitely, yeah.

EMMA-           The apps you steered clear of were they too overwhelming?

BRADLEY-     Not too overwhelming but I feel like I always get scared of people not accepting me and feeling misunderstood. I feel like those apps people can judge you without even knowing you, and it kind of scares me. So, I’ve always shied away from apps, no matter what [laughs].

EMMA-           Oh, that’s it. What we usually do is say together on with the show. So, are you ready [both] On with the show! Now I’m going to gossip with you about your boyfriend.

BRADLEY-     [Laughs]

MUSIC-           Theme music.

EMMA-           Hello, and welcome to Access All, the BBC’s weekly disability and mental health podcast. I’m Emma Tracey, coming at you from London. And you’ve just heard his lovely voice there, I’m going to be speaking in a moment to the absolutely brilliant Bradley Riches, straight out of the Celebrity Big Brother house. And later we’re going to be talking about an app which, unlike society, is fully set up for people who are neurodivergent.

                       You can contact us on email [email protected]. And please do subscribe to us on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

                       Being locked up in a house with 11 total strangers has to be really, really hard, but even more so if you’re autistic, like my next guest who’s been holed up with people like Sharon Osbourne and Louis Walsh for the last three weeks in Celebrity Big Brother. It’s Bradley Riches!

BRADLEY-     Hello, thank you for having me.

EMMA-           Oh, thank you for coming to see me. I’m so pleased. You’ve just come out a few days ago; you’re fresh from the Celebrity Big Brother house. My goodness. Bradley’s an actor, he’s an author. You might know him from films like 1917, Saltburn. But particularly you might remember him from the Netflix LGBTQ coming-of-age drama, Heartstopper, which I have been inhaling over the last few days. It was a 75% match on my Netflix, wasn’t aimed at me but I’m absolutely loving it. Now, Bradley came out of the Big Brother house in a surprise eviction just before the final. But he is here to give us the lowdown on all things Celebrity Big Brother and his time in the house. Thank you. I’m so excited.

BRADLEY-     Thank you [laughs].

EMMA-           So, how are you? How are you now?

BRADLEY-     I feel good. Part of me is, like, I kind of miss it [laughs].

EMMA-           Do you?

BRADLEY-     Yeah, it’s just because I think with me I like routine, so once I was in that routine and I felt comfortable and very open with everyone I was on a roll and I was just really comfortable in that situation. And then when it was then just pulled away from me last minute it was like, “oh, now I’m back to reality, oh God now I have to get into this routine again,” which is slowly but I’m getting there.

EMMA-           So, was there any indication before you went in to the house that there could be a sort of surprise eviction like that? And if not is that fair on an autistic contestant [laughs]?

BRADLEY-     I think in the contract, obviously you read it, and it’s Big Brother can always have the last say. So, I think I was always expecting the unexpected no matter what. And I feel like that’s why it wasn’t a shock because I felt it coming. I knew someone was going to go that night and I just felt like it was going to be me.

EMMA-           And it’s interesting because you say you’re really, really into routine, but also expecting the unexpected. As long as the unexpected is expected you’re okay?

BRADLEY-     Yes, [laughs] definitely that’s a good way to put it. With the Big Brother house I kind of blocked off those three weeks as that was my routine in this house, like, expecting the unexpected type thing. So, I feel like I got my brain around it quite easily. And then obviously when I was aware and I kind of knew something off was going on then I set myself up to know that someone was going.

EMMA-           Tell me a bit about your routines. What way do you set out your day or your week, like to what level?

BRADLEY-     So, I always wake up at the same time. I wake up at, like, 8:15 every single day. It’s kind of like, this sounds really weird, but if you think about a school timetable, you know like when it’s maths for 50 minutes, da, da, da for 50 minutes.

EMMA-           Yeah.

BRADLEY-     That is what I like: I like my brain to see that and have all of that. So, it would be like an hour walking my dog, 20 minutes to make my breakfast, ten minutes for a shower. It would be very…

EMMA-           So, what if the phone rings or something?

BRADLEY-     It wouldn’t distraught my day if a phone rings because I can just ignore it [laughs].

EMMA-           But if there was a sudden leak in the sink or something, that would be…?

BRADLEY-     I would not go out for the day, well, maybe the week [laughs]. That would be me done, type thing.

EMMA-           Were there adjustments made for you in the Celebrity Big Brother house before you went in?

BRADLEY-     Yes, they were very open about, not the schedule within the house, but the schedule before the house. They would always do a timetable for me, which was really helpful. And they did ask if I wanted a watch in there, if I wanted to set a routine for myself. But I wanted to really challenge myself and push myself and try and test myself in a way. So, I didn’t have a clock in the end, but they did offer that. So, they definitely put stuff in, they did set stuff up to make my time more inclusive and more accessible for me, which was really kind of them.

EMMA-           Now, you did have some quite emotional times in the house.

BRADLEY-     Yes.

EMMA-           Let’s hear a clip:

[Clip]

MARISHA-      Are you autistic?

BRADLEY-     Yeah.

MARISHA-      Ah, so how does it show up for you?

BRADLEY-     Uh, in different ways.

MARISHA-      Isn’t this a lot?

BRADLEY-     Oh my god, yes [laughs].

MARISHA-      Aren’t you gagging? I’m like I’m not even neurodivergent and I feel neurodivergent here. Wow.

BRADLEY-     Yeah, it’s a lot. But I’ve got my coping mechanisms. And that’s the main reason I wanted to come here, it was, like, to push myself. But when I’m lying there it’s like I lie there in bed and it’s like, god, how am I going to greet everyone in the morning, like, how am I going to say hi to everyone in the morning.

MARISHA-      Really?

BRADLEY-     It’s tiny things that sometimes add a lot of pressure, but.

MARISHA-      It’s so hard to have things like that because we can’t see it. I think you’ve done so well.

BRADLEY-     Because I think sometimes it’s like overthinking that you’re not doing everything right.

MARISHA-      Oh baby, you’re doing everything right. Come here.

BRADLEY-     I don’t really want to cry [laughs].

MARISHA-      No, you’re crying on TV.

BRADLEY-     [Crying] I’m having so much fun.

MARISHA-      Because you’re doing everything right. You’re doing everything right and you’re being yourself.

BRADLEY-     Yeah.

MARISHA-      And it’s beautiful.

[End of clip]

EMMA-           What a lovely clip. And Marisha really knows a lot about neurodivergence.

BRADLEY-     Yeah.

EMMA-           She was really on it, wasn’t she? How did it feel being so honest?

BRADLEY-     I feel like a lot of time, especially being neurodivergent, people get nervous to say the wrong wording or say the wrong thing type thing, and I feel like Marisha was just so open and so honest. She just wanted to know how I was feeling. And for that to be happening on day four, and for me to even… Like Marisha, I was a big fan of Marisha before I went in as well, so it was quite cathartic. It was really nice to have that connection very, very early on in the experience, because going into it I was very scared of if I wasn’t going to make any connections because it takes me time to connect with people and understand people.

EMMA-           What was the most challenging thing for you about being in the house?

BRADLEY-     Like, the first couple of days, maybe the first week, it was, like I said to Marisha, how am I going to greet people, because I struggle to greet people and know if I’m coming across well and I overthink everything. Especially the morning because you don’t want to be too much, you don’t want to greet people too much but you don’t want to greet people too little. It was that thing of knowing boundaries of people. Because, like, Louis Walsh doesn’t want me singing in his face when I wake up [laughs]. But for example David I could have that connection with David. So, it was just finding how each connection was different and working it out. And I had to do it quickly because otherwise people were going to hate me and get rid of me very quickly, so [laughs].

EMMA-           Yeah, because you had to be liked.

BRADLEY-     Yeah, you had to be liked. Luckily I was quite liked in there, nicely.

EMMA-           Yeah. Sorry, I got a little bit distracted there trying to think about what it would be like to be stuck in a house for three weeks with Louis Walsh [laughs].

BRADLEY-     When Sharon and Louis walked in it was like they walked in and they were like, “Hi everyone” and it was just like, “oh yeah, this is so normal” [laughs] “this is just so, so normal.”

EMMA-           Yeah, I didn’t grow up with these people on my telly at all.

BRADLEY-     No.

EMMA-           And what were your coping mechanisms? So, if you needed to stim what did you do?

BRADLEY-     When I was in Big Brother I just felt so, so accepted, and I was like if I want to stim I’m going to stim and not feel ashamed of it. I think that was a big thing. One of my coping mechanisms was obviously stimming.

EMMA-           Tell people what stimming is.

BRADLEY-     Stimming is when there’s so much emotion your body just needs to get rid of that energy in different ways of excitement or being anxious. And yeah, I stim quite a lot.

EMMA-           So, what do you do?

BRADLEY-     Hand movements. Also my legs go; I want to free my legs sometimes. I think there’s a video on TikTok that someone posted of Celebrity Big Brother and it’s me literally pushing my legs out and falling off the sofa, because it was just so much because I thought I was going to see a loved one, so that was probably quite a hard watch.

EMMA-           That was you stimming with excitement?

BRADLEY-     Yes. And then before Adrian walks in I’m clapping my hands together like this [claps quickly], excited, and then obviously that gets ruined as well.

EMMA-           How important is it for people to see that on television though? You don’t see that very much, do you?

BRADLEY-     And it’s also I don’t think I ever spoke about stimming in the house, but watching clips back when people are like, oh my god, he’s literally stimming, like, how important that is and stuff like that. It was like, oh my god, like, I really felt so comfortable in that situation. Because when I stim I don’t know I’m really stimming; like you kind of just do it, it’s kind of natural. But yeah, when people were posting it I was like, I never spoke about it in there but I obviously felt so comfortable and so accepted that my body would just do it, type thing.

EMMA-           Yeah. And how did you deal with sensory stuff?

BRADLEY-     Yes, the kitchen, oh my god, it was white. It was harsh white lighting and it felt like you were in a studio. That’s why me and David we’d always spend time in the garden, in the bathroom, spaces that weren’t as harsh and made me feel a bit more distressed, type thing. And then obviously walking into the house, obviously there were loud crowds and stuff like that, and the lights and stuff like that, I had my earplugs in which was very helpful. I think it allowed me to be more present, especially in that situation, because I want to absorb all of it, but also I don’t want to be so overwhelmed and over, like, stimulated that I just shut down and I have a breakdown type thing. So, using those earplugs really helped me to be more present, especially walking in the house.

EMMA-           I mean, you come across as such a happy chap, and you’ve talked to me really openly about stimming and about being able to wear your earplugs and the lighting. It can’t have always been like that for you. I mean, being autistic is a journey for most people. You were diagnosed when you were nine.

BRADLEY-     Yes.

EMMA-           What was childhood and life like for you before and just after your diagnosis?

BRADLEY-     I didn’t use my voice as a form of communication when I was younger, so I didn’t speak.

EMMA-           What age were you when you started to speak to communicate?

BRADLEY-     Ten, around ten.

EMMA-           So, did you speak at all before you were ten?

BRADLEY-     No. I would have forms of different communication, so like body or sounds. I would say Aba, my sister’s name was Amber, so I would always have a very close connection with my sister which was really nice. Without even using my voice they would still understand me. But whereas at school obviously bullying was a big thing, so it was like these kids won’t understand me, they don’t take time to understand me, so it was just nothingness really. And that was obviously quite hard growing up because I never had those connections, those friendships growing up. So, that’s when my Nan said for me to go to drama class, like a weekend school, just to get my confidence up. And then I started to find these people who were very similar to me and they liked the same things, and I began to use my voice as a form of communication as well as my body and my sounds. I had a stammer so I went to the doctor’s and had vocal training about my stammer. And then with the drama class it allowed me to accept myself a lot more. And I’m forever grateful for my nan, forever grateful for drama. Acting was an escapism for me; I was playing these characters who weren’t me, they were far away from me, and it made me find me – which sounds really weird because I wasn’t playing me, but.

EMMA-           Yeah, I’ve met quite a few autistic actors who would say that, absolutely, that acting is the easiest part of who they are...

BRADLEY-     Yeah, definitely.

EMMA-           …in some ways. And then being an autistic teen can be super tough because of your friendship groups, relationships. But you were also dealing with your sexuality and figuring out who you were there, weren’t you?

BRADLEY-     Yeah, definitely. It was like when I hit, say, 15 I started to accept who I was, like my neurodivergency, I understood myself more, I knew why I reacted in certain ways. And then obviously I started getting labelled as gay and stuff like that, and I was like, oh my god, there’s a new thing I need to, like, there’s another hurdle I need to jump over, my sexuality, what is it? And then I would struggle with my sexuality, not knowing who I was. So, then I felt like I had to go over two hurdles in my teen years. But once I understood myself there, when I was around 19, the past three years I’ve just been so happy and so accepting of myself. And now I’ve got the best friends ever and I’ve found my people finally, which is really nice. I think especially with sexuality you always think that no one’s going to accept you, and the people who love you the most you’re scared they’re going to reject you. But they don’t love that much if they can’t accept you. Do you get what I mean?

EMMA-           Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’ve been so honest and you’ve used your platform so beautifully, because you’ve also been to Downing Street to talk about loneliness amongst young people.

BRADLEY-     Yes.

EMMA-           How did that end up happening?

BRADLEY-     I got asked to be a part, like a face for this campaign called The Loneliness Campaign. And it’s basically focusing on 16 to 25 year-olds in the youth and younger about how loneliness is normal. Because I feel like everyone at least has felt lonely once in their life, even if you’re surrounded by all these people you can still feel lonely. And I think breaking that down saying it’s normal will let people speak more. And I think speaking to loved ones and speaking about how you feel is such a big thing, because once you speak about it you can then overcome it and you can understand why you’re feeling this way, and then you can have support. And once you find someone who has the same experience as you you just bond over that and then you don’t feel as lonely anymore.

EMMA-           Now, we cannot have you here in the studio without asking about Heartstopper.

BRADLEY-     [Laughs] oh god.

EMMA-           My goodness. Did that change you life?

BRADLEY-     Yeah. So, I auditioned for Season 1, and I sent my self-tapes in and I got through a couple of rounds for the Season 1, and then didn’t get the role. And then I randomly got a phone call for Season 1 saying, “would you like to come and do one line,?”basically like a featured extra in one of the scenes. And I was like, “of course I would, that would be great.” So, I did that. And then obviously Season 2 got announced, and obviously I didn’t think anything of it, and then I got another email, another phone call saying we’d love for you to audition for the new character of James. And then I found out two days later. It was crazy for them to remember me, especially from doing one line, it was quite cool because it’s unheard of in this industry, they just audition everyone. And I didn’t have an agent at the time either because I was studying at drama school.

EMMA-           So, without an agent or anything?

BRADLEY-     Yeah. So, I then had to leave drama school on my third year, one of my last terms. I did all my written work, got my degree thank God.

EMMA-           Woo-hoo! Well done.

BRADLEY-     [Laughs] thanks. Yeah, it completely changed my life. And I met so many amazing people while doing that job as well, which is really cool.

EMMA-           And Season 3 is coming?

BRADLEY-     Season 3 is coming.

EMMA-           What can we expect from James and from the show?

BRADLEY-     Oh, I don’t know if I can say actually [laughs].

EMMA-           Oh.

BRADLEY-     But I can say it’s out in October, which came out while I was in the house.

EMMA-           Oh come on. Nothing else to give?

BRADLEY-     No.

EMMA-           Does James have any sort of relationships in this new series?

BRADLEY-     Who knows? I want to keep my job [laughter].

EMMA-           So, what’s next then? Because you’ve obviously filmed Heartstopper now. What’s next for you?

BRADLEY-     Well, weirdly enough today the series I was in called Wreck Season 2 came out on BBC3.

EMMA-           Okay, tell us about that.

BRADLEY-     It’s a BBC horror with, like, comedic elements. And I play a character called Freddie.

EMMA-           Oh brilliant.

BRADLEY-     And then I’m joining a musical in May called Babies The Musical, which will be really cool.

EMMA-           That sounds very interesting. What’s that about?

BRADLEY-     It’s basically about a group of Year 11s, so all of us are a similar age, we’re all Year 11, who get an assignment. And it’s basically to look after a baby simulator, so obviously you have to feed the baby, you have to change the nappy and stuff like that. And everyone’s in pairs and everyone is going through their own struggles. And then my character gets paired with a boy and they slowly fall in love, well fall for each other, which is going to be really cool to play.

EMMA-           You’re sort of a gay disabled icon.

BRADLEY-     [Laughs] well, if you say so, I’ll take it!

MUSIC-           Access All.

EMMA-           This podcast has been going for nearly two years. We are almost at our 100th episode. And to celebrate we are asking our celebrity guests and you the same question. The question is: what is the best piece of advice another disabled person has given you? We’ve had some great answers, both from guests and from listeners, and we want to get more of your answers in please. You can send them by email [email protected]. You can send them via WhatsApp 0330 123 9480. Or you can send us a message on X or Instagram and we’re @BBCAccessAll. What is the best advice a fellow disabled person has given you that’s really helped you along the way? We want to hear it.

                       The dating world can be scary for all involved, particularly if you’re trying to find love on an app. And if you’re neurodivergent there are additional challenges to think about, whether that be the colours on the app, the brightness, the number of matches that you get in a day. I guess too few is a bit stressful, too many is overwhelming. So, you know, there’s a lot to think about if you’re neurodivergent and you’re trying to date. So, someone who has thought about this a lot and who has founded an app which claims to be entirely neurodiverse-friendly is Jamie Johnston. And Jamie’s with me now. Hi Jamie.

JAMIE-            Hi Emma. How are you?

EMMA-           I’m well thank you. This is a really interesting concept. How did it come about?

JAMIE-            The real catalyst was the pandemic, being locked in my flat, and that really was a catalyst for my mental suffering and that’s when I sought psychiatrist professional help. It was something I’d been told a lot throughout my life which is that I have ADHD, and that was confirmed through that testing. And I felt crippled with anxiety about writing anything about it on my dating profile. And so I thought well, this has got to be bigger than just me. So, that was really the purpose of the app. But on the other side it was really about looking at the technology of dating apps and how they can be really problematic for neurodivergents, especially_ people with ADHD where you’ve got unlimited choice, the fact that everything is now paid for. It really felt like a gambling software where, you know, just another fiver in the machine might get you a better prize, okay the prize being a human to talk to and probably a date. And I thought both of those two things were really damaging, and that’s where the idea for the product came from.

EMMA-           So, you were afraid to write anything on your own dating profile about being neurodivergent. You found regular apps very, very stressful. So, you set up Mattr. What is it and how does it work?

JAMIE-            So, we’re a dating app, and I think what’s really interesting about what we do is we’re available to use by anyone. So, anyone listening to this can use Mattr. But we have accessibility for people that need it. And I think this is a real key difference about what our product’s trying to do. As someone that was removed from classrooms for neurodivergent training and exams I always felt like I didn’t want to take neurodivergents or take people with mental health or take people with disabilities out of the pool of general dating. I wanted to educate everyone that falls outside that bracket, but also to include them through accessibility features. So, the product is for everyone, with accessibility for those that need it.

EMMA-           So, what are the specialist features?

JAMIE-            It’s about looking at the whole app in a holistic way. For instance the colours, we use the colours of the UK National Autistic Society, so autistic people can feel already when they see the colours it’s something they recognise and feel comfortable with.

EMMA-           If they agree with the National Autistic Society’s way of working of course.

JAMIE-            Yes, of course. We try to please as many people as possible.

EMMA-           Okay, so colours is one feature.

JAMIE-            Colours of course, and that’s just the start off. I think one of the great features that we have is the honesty box. The honesty box is two boxes that you’re meant to fill in when you come onto the product. One of them is something that’s called the honesty box that says, Something You’ll Need to Know. And that could be anything from anything about your neurodivergence or mental health or disability or anything, even if you’re just neurotypical, as we call them, timekeeping, scared of dogs, or whatever it is we give you a chance to be really open and upfront. And 80%, 90% of people that are using the product are using that feature.

EMMA-           So, something that might come up in a physical date?

JAMIE-            Of course.

EMMA-           Absolutely. And then there’s the number of matches, usually you can swipe through as many as you want, can’t you? What is different on your app?

JAMIE-            I think one of the things that’s really interesting is we did a survey with 4,000 people before we launched the product, roughly split 50/50 into neurotypicals and neurodiverse, and we asked them, you know, how do dating apps make you feel, what do you like and dislike about dating apps. It’s kind of crazy that both target groups found that the apps were overwhelming, which was really interesting to see. So, we limit the amount of people you can connect with to seven max a day. Right now it’s on five, and it increases as the users go up. So, you’re going to get to six, the next time we get 1,000 more users then it will go to seven. So, we only allow you to see those people. And then at midnight it will refresh, so you’ll get another seven that will come through every day at midnight. But we’re trying to get you to actually spend some time looking at the profiles and really read into what that person’s about.

                       And I’ll tell you another way that we do that. We don’t have any swiping, we don’t have any kind of, like, what’s behind the next door. Every seven is presented to you in one so that you can see them all. And to be able to connect with someone you can’t just like; you have to message. And to be able to message you have to open the profile. So, as a tech company we’re looking at all the different touchpoints and trying to change them to make it more like a human connection, rather than just like swipe, swipe, swipe, yes, no, yes, no.

EMMA-           And what has the feedback been from neurodivergent people?

JAMIE-            We actually did an interview a couple of weeks ago with a neurodivergent user. We speak to around three to four different people on the app every week and do face-to-face interviews and ask them what they like, dislike, how we can improve? And she said, “Well, this is my community. These are my people here. And even the people that aren’t neurodivergent are very understanding of what my condition is so I never feel like I have to spend ages explaining my quirks or traits or anything.”So, that was a really warming piece of feedback we got.

EMMA-           And what about yourself? This was based on your own story, so what was dating like for you before Mattr came along?

JAMIE-            I mean, dating for me before Mattr came along if you’d have looked at it on paper I was good. I was dating a lot, I was on the apps, I was going out a lot, I worked in a very exciting industry. But I was always trying to be someone I actually wasn’t, and I was always trying to fit in and I was always trying to be very, I was very aware of who I was and trying to supress that.

EMMA-           And did that get you into any difficult situations?

JAMIE-            100% yeah. So, for instance one of the things I really struggle with is eye contact, and that’s something that ADHD people struggle with a lot. So, I don’t like to look at people straight in the eye, it makes me feel anxious. So, when I was on dates I knew that that could be perceived as being rude, so I would then try to overcompensate and then I would get anxiety about looking at them in the eyes too much. So, I was kind of having this internal battle with myself all the time about how to behave properly and how to fit in and box myself into the kind of normal, shall I say, way of dating. And obviously that then gave me anxiety where I would ghost or not reply to people or not be a great person afterwards because I was too worried about confronting the fact that they thought I was being strange on the date; when probably it was all in my head and they didn’t think anything of it, but that’s how I felt.

EMMA-           We need to hear about some success stories. Have you heard some success stories?

JAMIE-            We have, yes. Well, actually when you delete the product you have to let us know why you’re deleting the product. So, it says, like, I met someone; it was too overwhelming, you know, I was too overwhelmed with dating or whatever. And then one of them is I met someone on Mattr. And very interestingly we only launched that feedback form roughly about four weeks ago, I think it was on the Tuesday it launched. Anyway, on the Friday we were all really excited, and it’s so ridiculous saying this, but we were all really excited that someone deleted our product because we had someone fill in the feedback form and put, I met someone on the app and now I’m leaving. Which I think that makes me so happy. And in a way it’s strange because essentially you’re saying someone’s not going to be using your product anymore. But what we hope is that they go and tell x amount of their friends and then they come and replace them.

EMMA-           And is the app growing day by day?

JAMIE-            We’re up to around 6,000 users within London. We’re only available in London currently. UK expansion is earmarked for the beginning of next year. It’s amazing to think 6,000 people are using a product that you had an idea for during lockdown when you were doing a home workout.

EMMA-           Thank you Jamie Johnston, and your Mattr app.

JAMIE-            Thank you so much for having me.

EMMA-           That is it for this week’s episode. Thank you to my guests, to Jamie Johnston from the Mattr dating app and to the absolutely lovely Bradley Riches. I think we’re going to be hearing a lot more from him. Thank you for listening and talk to you soon. Bye.

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JONELLE-       And each week we’ll be breaking down the stories everyone’s obsessed with. What the hell is going on with this Stanley Cup craze?

KIRSTY-         How often do you think about the Roman Empire?

MALE-            There are weeks that it will come up in my brain more than once.

JONELLE-       Expect interviews with the hottest influencers and content creators.

KIRSTY-         Jordan Theresa, welcome along. Matt, joins us now. Welcome to the Reliable Sauce studio!

MATT-            Thank you for having me.

KIRSTY-         Let’s talk more about this with Catie Baser who’s in the studio with us.

CATIE-            Hi.

KIRSTY-         And hand-picked experts to help us make sense of it all when we need them.

FEMALE-        So, the law is there, but we really need these social media companies to act.

FEMALE-        Terms like this seem quite flippant, but of course they can be really serious.

KIRSTY-         And we will  have a little giggle too [laughter].

JONELLE-       So, please come and join our spicy band.

KIRSTY-         Listen on BBC Sounds now.